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Author Topic: A good student Euphonium??  (Read 5892 times)
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jcbrown04
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« on: May 17, 2012, 05:29PM »

You guys were so helpful with my Trombone issue....didn't know if anyone here was knowledgeable about good Euphoniums as well. I had my sights set on a Yamaha 321 for no other reason than 'it's what everyone else was getting' but again...I play the saxophone...we are idiots.

Anyone like it or not? Prefer something different? I was quoted at $1535 for a brand new Silver one and about $1300 for a brand new lacquered one. Was going to try and find one used though. Found one for $899 and was pretty much going to settle with that unless someone here thought differently and strongly about it. I'm open to all advice!

Thanks so much!
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Burgerbob

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« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2012, 05:35PM »

The Yamaha is a good horn- I played on one in high school. They're also very well built, the horns we had were over thirty years old (and definitely had some problems!) but were still playable at a good level. Don't worry about silver, lacquer is fine.

For four valve euphs, I'm not sure there's anything cheaper that would be better or equivalent.
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« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2012, 05:38PM »

The Yamaha 321 is a great euphonium.  Not just for beginners.  It's a great doubling euphonium as well.

If you don't like the Yamaha 321, consider the King 2280/Conn 19I (same horn, just different names on the bell).

If you don't need fancy, an older Olds Ambassador is good.  That's what I started on.
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« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2012, 05:39PM »

It's a great euphonium, especially for a school. I would be careful with the older ones though, the ones I used back when I played with a local youth band constantly had valve issues. There's also the Jupiter euphoniums (470, 570, 1270) which are much better than most would think before they try it. The King 2280 is also a great euphonium, though I'm not a huge fan of the plastic valve guides they use. They would definitely be worth a look if you can find one with the metal valve guides (might be rebadged as the Conn 191).
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s3si1u

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« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2012, 05:43PM »

I believe there's also that new JP/Sterling line of euphoniums that are manufactured by the same company that makes the JP/Rath trombones. If they're as good as the trombones are, they are definitely worth a look.
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TromboneMonkey

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« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2012, 06:05PM »

I think the King 2280 is the best bang-for-buck four-valve non-comp available.


... unless you could get your hands on a Yamaha 621...
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« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2012, 06:38PM »

I will second the Jupiter euphoniums. I have one that I bought at Woodwind Brasswind for $1500 that I like playing. Make sure to get a fourth valve that sits along the side. It's much more comfortable.
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« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2012, 07:58PM »

I was quoted at $1535 for a brand new Silver one and about $1300 for a brand new lacquered one.

These prices look a lot lower than any advertised price, and comparable to typical used prices.
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Radar

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« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2012, 08:34PM »

I play a 321 and it's a great horn for the price.  I would recommend it, easy to play nice tone, valves work well.
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mr.deacon
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« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2012, 09:00PM »

I have to ask how many are you buying and are you looking to have matching horns?

But yes its true for the buying a new Euph you cant go wrong with a Yammy 321 which is far superior to the King 2280. My school has a 2280 that was just built with shoddy craftsmanship in comparison to a 321. In all honesty though I hate Non-Comp horns with a passion they just dont blow the same as a Comp horn.

If you wouldnt mind getting some used horns the Boosey Imperials and Besson New Standards pre Round Stamp era are wonderful horns that are INDESTRUCTIBLE like no joke if you threw one of these down the stairs it wouldnt even have a dent. The Round Stamp Boosey Imperials are also wonderful horns though imo they dont have the same magic as the pre round stamp era horns. You can get any of these horns used in good condition from anywhere to $800-$1800 and these are professional level horns too!

This is just my 20 cents as a being primarily a Euphonium player.
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« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2012, 11:20PM »

Yamaha 321 and 321s!
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sceuphonium
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« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2012, 06:16AM »

The choice depends on who will be playing the horn.  Of the choices others have mentioned...

Used Besson / Boosey & Hawkes 3 valve compensator:
Wonderful tone!  A deep, rich, true euphonium sound.  Truly built like a tank.  Finish could be ugly; the old cellulose lacquer did not last like other companies.  Intonation varies from horn to horn.  If you have a serious student who is after a real euphonium sound, and they don't care about the appearance, this could be the best choice musically and cheapest to buy as well.  In terms of sound, these play like the best full-sized 4-valves.  Look on Ebay.

Used King 2280.  Good horn all around.  Tone is good, intonation is decent.  Unless you luck into a really underpriced Besson or other compensator, you won't find a really good horn for less money.  A good all around choice for anyone except a college-bound music major or really serious adult amateur.

Used Yamaha Yep321.  All the good things people have said are true... the build quality is outstanding and intonation is great.  They hold up will.  They are easy to blow, and doublers like them... BUT they are easy to blow because they are TINY, the smallest bore of anything called a euphonium.  Trombonists like them because the bore is like a trombone.  The sound is simply not the same sound you will get out of a full-sized horn.  The sound isn't bad, it just isn't really a euphonium sound... more like a Conn or King bell-front baritone.  With apologies to the folks who play 321s, it's a fact that everyone in the military bands and just about every college music major is playing big Besson-clone compensators.  Again, the little Yamaha is a great horn... for kids, for players who feel ease of play outweighs tone, for someone after a brighter, more agile sound (nice on solo stuff!). 

John Thompson

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Bob Kolada

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« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2012, 07:09AM »

The 2280, followed closely by the 321, is the best horn out there- easy to play, big full sound (not sure why anyone would say 321's sound small...), easy low range (and in tune with proper use of the King's kicker),... Comp euphs may be all the rage but they aren't really musical instruments anymore, they're EUPHONIUMS.  :-P

If you want to fit in and get a good playing horn on the cheap, the Jin Bao euphs play very well. I bought a used one for a friend for 400 bucks. Workable low range (I want a 3rd slide kicker for low C and B), good intonation, good valves (one needs a guide replaced, it IS a used horn), easy to play,...

I play tuba in a military band but am switching to euph; I'll be picking up a front action, up bell King or getting a big bore front valve horn built for myself. 4+2? Awesome!! For a stock horn, I'd have no problems playing a 2280 as a euph major, whatever that is. I've played my 3 valve Amati for money (which is almost as good as cash) in brass band and orchestra; once I ignored the cackling, based solely on looks, it worked very well. Once you figure out the slide pulls and such, 321's actually have a pretty good low range.
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octavposaune

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« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2012, 07:33AM »

Hi all,

First off the 321 is based off of a 1960s Boosey intermediate horn. They are not small bore, they simply have a small shank mouthpiece reciever. The common mod is to put the 621 large shank reciever on them. Many pros use these to double on in LA and one here in seattle. valve bore size .570 and a Besson compensator  is .580. Not too much different.

Kings sometimes suffer from build quality issues, Yamahas seldom do. Dj has a 3 valved compensator boosey I believe, I am sure it sounds nice! However a fourth valve is pretty handy nowadays, lots of literature with low notes in the euphonium parts.

Benn
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Radar

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« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2012, 11:53AM »

Hi all,

First off the 321 is based off of a 1960s Boosey intermediate horn. They are not small bore, they simply have a small shank mouthpiece reciever. The common mod is to put the 621 large shank reciever on them. Many pros use these to double on in LA and one here in seattle. valve bore size .570 and a Besson compensator  is .580. Not too much different.

Kings sometimes suffer from build quality issues, Yamahas seldom do. Dj has a 3 valved compensator boosey I believe, I am sure it sounds nice! However a fourth valve is pretty handy nowadays, lots of literature with low notes in the euphonium parts.

Benn
I would have to agree with everything said here, as well as add that I played in a military band and went to the Armed Forces School of Music, and when I went through there were several of us playing 321s.  That's why when I got out and the Army (who supplied my 321) wasn't providing me with horns anymore I bought my own 321.  They are a great horn for marching, and for concert band, and I actually couldn't play all of our concert literature without the 4th valve, so I wouldn't recommend a 3 valve compensating instrument.  There are better horns out there sure but you'll pay quite a bit more to get one, unless you can find a deal on one used.  PS I've sat in concert band next to people play much more expensive Large shank horns, and no one has ever complained that I didn't sound like the other Euphoniums. 
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« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2012, 12:25PM »

The Yamaha 321 is a good choice, as is the King 2280. I like the large shank receiver on the 2280, but many players change out the receiver on the Yamaha. IIRC, Hornguys had a few custom ordered from Yamaha that way. On the other hand, when Yamaha was still tweaking the 321, Luke Spiros (former Marine Band soloist) and Rich Matteson both liked the way the smaller receiver played. If you preferred bigger mouthpieces than they played, you might like the larger shank. Also a good choice, the Dillon 3+1 non-comp. One of my students has one, it plays really well. You can see if you can find a used Yamaha 621 out there, that's also a 3+1 non-comp horn. It's been discontinued here in the US, but I think it might still be available elsewhere new.
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« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2012, 02:50PM »

It's been discontinued here in the US, but I think it might still be available elsewhere new.

They still make them.  They discontinued them in the US purely for marketing/sales reasons (it was cutting into their sales of 642s).  IMO it's the best non-comp euphonium available. 
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« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2012, 06:38AM »

The Yamaha 321 is a good choice, as is the King 2280. I like the large shank receiver on the 2280, but many players change out the receiver on the Yamaha. IIRC, Hornguys had a few custom ordered from Yamaha that way. On the other hand, when Yamaha was still tweaking the 321, Luke Spiros (former Marine Band soloist) and Rich Matteson both liked the way the smaller receiver played. If you preferred bigger mouthpieces than they played, you might like the larger shank. Also a good choice, the Dillon 3+1 non-comp. One of my students has one, it plays really well. You can see if you can find a used Yamaha 621 out there, that's also a 3+1 non-comp horn. It's been discontinued here in the US, but I think it might still be available elsewhere new.

Another good choice, although a bit more pricy, is the Dillon 3+1 Compensator. I have it and like it. It's a bit more of a risk, but there are a few other importers that sell them for far less. Mack Brass is one, Jim Laabs is another (although Laabs only allows exchanges, not returns).
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« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2012, 11:23AM »

I believe there's also that new JP/Sterling line of euphoniums that are manufactured by the same company that makes the JP/Rath trombones. If they're as good as the trombones are, they are definitely worth a look.
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« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2012, 12:51PM »

They are not :/
Are they not manufactured by John Packer in China as well?
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