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Author Topic: Pedal Note Benders  (Read 15029 times)
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WaltTrombone
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« on: Jun 18, 2012, 06:43PM »

Here is an exercise I use for a bunch of things, see the notes in the pdf. I find it very useful extending/solidifying my low register. For those purposes, it works well on bass trombone, but there's no reason you can't do these on tenor as well. They make a great cool down after a long session of higher/faster/louder.

Enjoy!

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Walter Barrett
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« Reply #1 on: Jun 18, 2012, 07:32PM »

I thought this was something about drinking and playing bass bone, from the title! :D
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WaltTrombone
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« Reply #2 on: Jun 19, 2012, 07:09AM »

I thought this was something about drinking and playing bass bone, from the title! :D

Most of the bass trombonists I know don't need an etude to help with that!  Evil
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Walter Barrett
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« Reply #3 on: Jun 19, 2012, 09:15AM »

Nice to see this written out.

My occasional teacher had me extending my "bending" on tenor as well as bass:

  flat to Ab

  to D

  flat down to Eb

 Pedal Bb down to wherever. If I said Db, he'd say go lower.
« Last Edit: Jun 19, 2012, 08:36PM by Torobone » Logged

Martin Hubel
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« Reply #4 on: Jun 19, 2012, 11:23AM »

Thanks for sharing! I think I need to do this on my small bass trombone mouthpiece. I believe it will make the buzz stronger down there. Then this register will speak more easy.

Leif
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« Reply #5 on: Aug 14, 2012, 06:07AM »

Great exercise! Thanks for sharing it!
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« Reply #6 on: Aug 14, 2012, 04:29PM »

I spend a little time bending everything. Something Jimmy Stamp advised me. Not only low, but high. Play an F above the staff, bend it to E and back to F (both Jimmy and Jeff Reynolds taught me it is not the bend down but the slow bend back up to pitch that is most important, learning to stay on the low side of pitch center), then play F#. Do it again, and go to G, etc. Until high Bb.

Do the excercise over on F# to B, G to C, as high as you want to go. Alternate with pedal notes. It is a scream trumpet excercise but works great on trombone.

Getting that control led to me playing above double high Bb on bass trombone, and double pedals as well.

Just don't get absorbed and overdo it. Play some real music more often than this stuff.

Pedal benders are a great "cool down" (as opposite to "warm up") after some taxing playing.
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« Reply #7 on: Dec 18, 2012, 04:51PM »

This may sound weird but bending pitch has always hurt my lips/jaw... I think I am doing it wrong.
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« Reply #8 on: Dec 18, 2012, 08:15PM »

^ As a general rule; If it hurts, you're probably doing it wrong.
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« Reply #9 on: Feb 04, 2013, 10:21AM »

^ As a general rule; If it hurts, you're probably doing it wrong.

not the first time.. that hurts, still doing it good =D
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WaltTrombone
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« Reply #10 on: Feb 07, 2013, 09:38AM »

A video demo of how I play these, shot yesterday while waiting for a student to show up. (He never did, so I got a good practice session instead.)


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/9XpjG1Brpm8?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/9XpjG1Brpm8?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;rel=0</a>

Recorded with my iPhone, I'm playing on my modified YBL611-II, and my Schilke 60.
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Walter Barrett
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« Reply #11 on: Apr 04, 2013, 01:19PM »

^ As a general rule; If it hurts, you're probably doing it wrong.
You haven't done some of the workouts that I have. They hurt so good.
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« Reply #12 on: Apr 30, 2013, 08:25AM »

I went on a pedal note bender once. The hangover made me feel very...low.

But seriously, folks...

There are "partials" below the normal pedal range. Depending on the instrument, there is a B or C  double pedal in 1st position and equivalent notes in other "positions" (They are somewhat extended from our normal positions, but not a great deal.), the same general notes as a triple (or possibly more accurately a quadruple pedal), and the double pedal notes' perfect fifths above available as well.

What Walt is doing is bending down from the normal pedal into the "perfect fifth above the double pedal" range and then bending down somewhat from that range as well. When he slurs down to the G, after the sound gets progressively weaker, the G pops out quite strongly. (Most larger trombones tend to have C-ish double and triple/quadruple pedals, so the G is actually being played on the "perfect fifth above the double pedal" partial. That's why his low "F#" going down begins to get relatively weak. Then he takes a breath and resets  a little into the "perfect fifth above the double pedal" partial. (They are not very well locked, of course. More on that later.) The F# immediately sounds much fuller. He ends on a big sounding F. Betcha if he let that F drift up a little with the same air it would sound even bigger as it approached the F# and/or G. I'll also betcha that if he just played a good pedal Bb and then slurred down fairly rapidly and smoothly he would find a sort of "lock"...a feeling like a partial...around G or F#. Further, if he got that G or F# happening and did another slur down he would find a double pedal B or C, and another slur down would lock on what we might laughingly call a triple pedal B or C. More like a tempo than a note, really, but pitch of the note can be ascertained.

Betcha.

Why?

How?

Well...how first.

Take your horn...any horn...and pop the m'pce with the flat of your hand. You will get a Bb. Now pop it using your closed index and middle finger. You will get a higher note...usually B or C.

Why? Damned if I know. But there it is. Try it.

OK...back to the horn.

In a system like the trombone there are "reflected" tones that do not make it out of the bell. They are reflected from some part of the flare, thus they are roughly double the length of the horn minus some percentage because the do not reach the end of the bell. Bigger flare? The reflection happens further back from the bell and produces a higher pitch. Reflected from behind the bell, back to the chop and then out of the bell again? A little less than twice as long as the real fundamental, a "fundamental" a little less than an octave below the regular one. That also projects some reflected tones...progressively weaker, but quite clearly there in my own daily experience on every size of trombone and m'pce that I play...and you have a note twice as low as the double pedal. But it's not really a "note" so much as it is the lips popping on the m'pce the same way that your index and middle finger were popping on it only at a certain air-produced "tempo."

Pop pop pop pop pop pop pop.

Does the index and middle finger thing produce a "C" sound?

Then your double and quadruple pedals will be somewhere near C.

Does it produce a "B" sound?

Ditto.

Your double and quadruple pedals will be somewhere near B.

Now to "why."

Why do this?

'Cuz it's good fer ya.

Good for the air, good for the corners, good the the lip mass...it's like a great massage..and it's fun, too. If you don't faint, of course.

Dassit.

'Nuf said.

Check it out.

Later...

S.


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Visit <http://samburtis.com/>. Lots of information on that site in the form of articles plus a link to my method book "Time, Balance & Connections-A Universal Theory Of Brass Relativity" which includes several chapters of the book.
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« Reply #13 on: Oct 26, 2013, 09:47AM »

This studio is perfect for me, This is very helpful the higher register!
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« Reply #14 on: Apr 04, 2014, 01:17PM »

Thanks for the demo, Walt, very helpful.
I've been intrigued about bending notes and false tones since I have this "straight bore bass" to actually attempt and practice them.  'tho I find it easier on my regular tenor.
Bending up and down in the high range to; fun stuff. Good!
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« Reply #15 on: Sep 04, 2015, 09:31PM »

I love note bending. I bend from Bb down to double pedal Bb on my jazz tenor. I teach my students to bend notes as soon as they have a well formed embouchure. It's very useful. Especially to my euphonium students on those quirky fingerings.
Thanks for the video!
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« Reply #16 on: Jan 06, 2017, 01:31AM »

Will give this a shot, as I'm a former trumpet player and neither pedal tones nor the lower double-trigger register on my bass were my "forte". Gotten better with more concentrated practice the last 6 weeks or so, but ... still a work in progress. Thanks! BTW - using a Yamaha 58 on my Yamaha 822g, which tonally otherwise fits me like a glove. So I don't think "it's the mouthpiece". I played 18 years on a Bach 1 1/2 GM with which I had the same "problmes" getting down there AND didn't like my general sound to boot.
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