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The Trombone ForumPractice BreakChit-ChatPurely Politics(Moderators: bhcordova, RedHotMama, BFW) Predictions for the 3rd Presidential Debate
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Author Topic: Predictions for the 3rd Presidential Debate  (Read 15900 times)
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SensitiveJohn
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« Reply #200 on: Oct 22, 2012, 12:36PM »

I'll have to stock up at the packie on my way home.
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« Reply #201 on: Oct 22, 2012, 03:11PM »

desperate     email  from  barak michelle   bill    casper the ghost 
  for funding  ads 
 WHATS  $$$$$$$$$$$$$  MONEY  HAVE TO DO W IT  ???????????????????????????????
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« Reply #202 on: Oct 22, 2012, 03:27PM »

Will you still be singing the same tune if they decide to retaliate against Romney by cutting off supply lines?  How you gonna do your networking with no cable, no interface boxes, and no computers?

I hope they do.  We can do all the computing and neworking we want to right here with the systems we can manufacture at home.  They can't afford to screw over their biggest consumer market.  Get real...get a clue.  They may posture, but they want ourbusiness.
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« Reply #203 on: Oct 22, 2012, 04:02PM »

I agree with the first sentence and the last paragraph, but they both sound like a condemnation of the rest of your own post, which reads like a list of talking points.

You'll notice that I was careful to mention that I wasn't making excuses for Obama, but simply disputing the $5 trillion number as too high. A president isn't responsible for legislation passed before he was elected, or for the existing fiscal year, which is already budgeted, or for non-discretionary items, like interest on existing debt. That hasn't changed. Obama's policies added to the federal debt, but not five trillion, in case accuracy matters.

To answer your question, a budget surplus occurs when you take more money in than you're spending. The reason that there was 'no money in the bank' is that it reduced the debt rather than piling up. I don't think it's typical that there are large piles of federal money sitting around in case we need it. Clinton ran budget surpluses--that's not even a matter of dispute. I don't give him much credit for it, because he benefitted from the tech bubble, which eventually burst.

Your point that we shouldn't keep someone who hasn't done the job is obvious (that's why it's a talking point). What's less obvious is whether Obama has done the job, and more importantly, which of our two choices will do a better job. I'm not a big Obama booster, but most of the criticism of Obama on this thread is cartoonish, crude, and simple-minded. If I ask what Obama's foreign policy failures have been, and people come up with bowing to a *** ****, or buying the British Prime Minister a crummy gift, it isn't a particularly substantive discussion.

If you want to talk about people who discuss topics they don't understand, you're welcome to try to substantively rebut anything I've written. Please leave your talking points at home.
Rebutting your comments is pretty simple.  You don't know what you are talking about in terms of the Clinton surpluses. The supposed surplus never really existed, and no money was put into lowering the National debt.  The entire thing was an accounting ploy, a manipulation that President Clinton was  a part of willingly. That is the real fact. If i quoted a talking point, too too bad.  When it comes down to it, you and i, as well as the rest of this crew will be criticized no matter what we say because someone else will disagree. But,  being unhappy with the job Obama has done doesn't make anyone into a wing nut, loon,  or any other term these guys like to throw around.  I own a small business that has nothing to do with music, and i have earned my opinions in the real world.
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« Reply #204 on: Oct 22, 2012, 04:56PM »

Rebutting your comments is pretty simple.  You don't know what you are talking about in terms of the Clinton surpluses. The supposed surplus never really existed, and no money was put into lowering the National debt.  The entire thing was an accounting ploy, a manipulation that President Clinton was  a part of willingly. That is the real fact. If i quoted a talking point, too too bad.  When it comes down to it, you and i, as well as the rest of this crew will be criticized no matter what we say because someone else will disagree. But,  being unhappy with the job Obama has done doesn't make anyone into a wing nut, loon,  or any other term these guys like to throw around.  I own a small business that has nothing to do with music, and i have earned my opinions in the real world.

You must be very happy.  I hope your success continues.  My wife and I are a LOT better off than we were 4 years ago.  Since we are retired and living off our investments, including the return off our social security investment, when the stock market it up - so is our income.  We are also very happy and hope our success continues under Obama's second term.  However, I still predict that this 3rd debate will change no opinions on either extreme end.
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« Reply #205 on: Oct 22, 2012, 05:41PM »

Rebutting your comments is pretty simple.  You don't know what you are talking about in terms of the Clinton surpluses. The supposed surplus never really existed, and no money was put into lowering the National debt.  The entire thing was an accounting ploy, a manipulation that President Clinton was  a part of willingly. That is the real fact. If i quoted a talking point, too too bad.  When it comes down to it, you and i, as well as the rest of this crew will be criticized no matter what we say because someone else will disagree. But,  being unhappy with the job Obama has done doesn't make anyone into a wing nut, loon,  or any other term these guys like to throw around.  I own a small business that has nothing to do with music, and i have earned my opinions in the real world.

I understand your point. Treating trust fund obligations as debt erases the surplus (although even using that method of accounting, Clinton erased almost all of the deficit--during his last fiscal year, the debt rose by only $18B).

That doesn't rebut the underlying point--since Clinton's 'surpluses' (I put that in quotes for you) and Bush's deficits were accounted for in the same way, the swing between the two administrations was the same. In other words, you're counting the 'surplus' accounting as chicanery, but if so it was the same chicanery in both administrations, and treating SS obligations as deficits would make Bush's deficits even worse.

The biggest problem with Bush's policies wasn't just the deficit--it's that he used deficit spending and monetary policy to punch up an already overheated economy, and in doing so created simultaneous housing, banking, and stock panics which nearly sank the economy.

For what it's worth, you'll look in vain for a post in which I call anyone a wing nut. Unlike you (and many other people on this forum), I don't refer to 'these guys'--I'm responding specifically to you. I don't think there's anything wrong with opposing Obama, and I don't think it makes anyone a 'loon' to do so, since about half of the country opposes him.

Like you, I've earned my opinions as a small businessman, having been self-employed full-time for a couple of decades and have met a payroll varying from $300,000-500,000 for damn near fourteen years. That having been said, I don't discount the validity of people who earned their opinions a different way.
« Last Edit: Oct 22, 2012, 09:43PM by Piano man » Logged

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« Reply #206 on: Oct 22, 2012, 05:48PM »

I hope they do.  We can do all the computing and neworking we want to right here with the systems we can manufacture at home.  They can't afford to screw over their biggest consumer market.  Get real...get a clue.  They may posture, but they want ourbusiness.

I challenge you to name me ONE PC/Laptop/etc. that is made in the USA.  I'd bet you can't do it.

IBM Thinkpads are made in China, as are all IBM Desktops (which sport the name Lenovo).
HP and Compaq are made in China.
Dell is assembled in the US from Chinese parts.
So is Gateway.
Apple?  Ever hear of Foxcon (a Chinese company)?
Sony?  Japanese.

There are some Servers and Workstations still made in the US, but I don't think anybody is going to buy a $10,000 device that weighs 100 pounds to do e-mail.

Go into Staples and look at the digital infrastructure.  See how much of it is made in China.

If you want to use American made gear, you are pretty much limited to stuff from the Pentium II and Pentium III era.
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« Reply #207 on: Oct 22, 2012, 06:24PM »

But,  being unhappy with the job Obama has done doesn't make anyone into a wing nut, loon,  or any other term these guys like to throw around.  I own a small business that has nothing to do with music, and i have earned my opinions in the real world.

Yes, ssking2b, there is a coven of hard core leftwingers on this site who assume that anyone who attacks Obama is a malicious racist bigot, and not because Barry is an arrogant, capitalist-hating socialist ideologue who has the worst record of any recent president, and is hell bent on turning our beloved capitalist country into a Socialist Euroweenie-style Nanny state.

Oh, and don't use words like "********," even though that's what everyone in our armed forces calls our hated Islamic enemies.
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« Reply #208 on: Oct 22, 2012, 06:55PM »

Barry
Slick Willard
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« Reply #209 on: Oct 22, 2012, 07:44PM »

So clearly, Romney is a throw-back to the 80's.  Good!
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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #210 on: Oct 22, 2012, 07:51PM »

So clearly, Romney is a throw-back to the 80's.  Good!

For starters, yeah.
 
The president took the governor to politics school again on this one, more forcefully than he did in the second debate. Romney looked like he was running out of talking points and didn't have the chops to elaborate or talk around them very much. Obama was clear about Romney's Etch-E-Sketch problem, which largely disarmed the strategy (very unlike the first debate).
 
I'm not sure it'll have a large bottom line/vote effect, but I think it'll probably give Obama a bit of a surge. No one's running away with the election, that's for sure, but I think Obama probably earned himself enough of a nudge to keep the presidency--can't really say with any honest confidence because we're so divided, and because I can't easily lie to myself as some can.
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« Reply #211 on: Oct 22, 2012, 08:06PM »


For starters, yeah.
 
The president took the governor to politics school again on this one, more forcefully than he did in the second debate. Romney looked like he was running out of talking points and didn't have the chops to elaborate or talk around them very much. Obama was clear about Romney's Etch-E-Sketch problem, which largely disarmed the strategy (very unlike the first debate).
 
I'm not sure it'll have a large bottom line/vote effect, but I think it'll probably give Obama a bit of a surge. No one's running away with the election, that's for sure, but I think Obama probably earned himself enough of a nudge to keep the presidency--can't really say with any honest confidence because we're so divided, and because I can't easily lie to myself as some can.

That's a pretty good from-the-hip impression. I wonder what others will post after they do their catch-up reading on what their opinions "ought" to be.
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« Reply #212 on: Oct 22, 2012, 08:10PM »

That's a pretty good from-the-hip impression. I wonder what others will post after they do their catch-up reading on what their opinions "ought" to be.

I think a lot of people, like me, are getting their post-debate "coaching" from watching the Giants get to the World Series and the Bears beat up on the Lions right now.
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« Reply #213 on: Oct 22, 2012, 08:23PM »

Yes, ssking2b, there is a coven of hard core leftwingers on this site who assume that anyone who attacks Obama is a malicious racist bigot, and not because Barry is an arrogant, capitalist-hating socialist ideologue who has the worst record of any recent president, and is hell bent on turning our beloved capitalist country into a Socialist Euroweenie-style Nanny state.

Oh, and don't use words like "********," even though that's what everyone in our armed forces calls our hated Islamic enemies.

I'm the one who called you out on the ethnic slur. I don't "assume that anyone who attacks Obama is a malicious racist bigot." I assume that people who use disgusting ethnic slurs are bigots, and that includes you. If you had called the guy a sand ****** or a camel jockey, I would have responded the same way. In case you didn't notice, many of our allies in the Mideast also wear turbans.

People have all sorts of reasons to oppose Obama, just as with other presidents. That doesn't make them bigots.
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« Reply #214 on: Oct 22, 2012, 08:25PM »

I believe I could have more respect for Romney if he had admitted changing his stance on topics during the past several months as a learning process as a result of the campaign. He could have pointed out how Obama has changed and matured during his past four years in office. I could see that as an honest man being honest. But nooooooooooo.
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« Reply #215 on: Oct 22, 2012, 08:33PM »

I thought Mitt was at a disadvantage here, because any distance he put between Obama's policies and his own potential ones could cause alarm. For instance, would he have us confronting Iraq or Syria any more quickly? You don't want to look like GWB to a nation that's tired of dimly-understood wars.

I was surprised how often he endorsed Obama's policies and how often he broke ranks with Bush. Still, it wasn't a blowout. My prediction that Romney wouldn't go heavy on Libya was borne out, so I'm smarter than the rest of you.

Both of them repeated themselves a lot--at one point, Obama repeated an entire long sentence almost word-for-word, and he appeared to have 'wrong and reckless' and 'keep the American people safe' tattooed on the back of his hand.
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« Reply #216 on: Oct 23, 2012, 12:54AM »

Ask any military personnel returning from the Middle East what they call them.  The appellation "rag head" for the indigenous people of that region is considered proper and polite by those people.

Sorry pal, but that IS an ethnic slur, at least on here. I don't much care where else it's used or by whom (and I don't think you chose the best example), but not by TTF members, thanks.
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« Reply #217 on: Oct 23, 2012, 12:54AM »

And where's the new topic, so that I can throw the switch on this bugger?????
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