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Author Topic: Odd Conn (73h?)  (Read 4443 times)
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« Reply #20 on: Feb 12, 2013, 09:15PM »

There's plenty of cheap used horns you can buy, why not try for one of those, you'll need a trombone of your own in a few years though
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« Reply #21 on: Feb 13, 2013, 01:19AM »

If you haven't already done so, check the Conn trombone recognition information at http://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/ConnArticle22.html
And look at the instrument itself - I don't know whether they did this for the 73H, but there may be a model number stamped somewhere near the slide/bell connection.

If you're paying to hire the instrument, you're entitled to get what you're paying for.  If you actually want to play bass trombone, you've probably got a really good instrument to start on, but if you're something like 13 years old, I'd say it was too soon to make that choice.  If you want to play tenor trombone music, it's going to be unnecessarily difficult to do so using a bass trombone, and changing the mouthpiece to suit the bass sounds like fixing the wrong problem.  I would suggest getting a real tenor trombone ASAP, either hiring from somewhere else or purchasing.  If you're certain that it's a 73H, I think your parents are entitled to ask the school's head teacher why they're paying to hire the wrong equipment.
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« Reply #22 on: Feb 13, 2013, 01:42AM »

A bass trombone is going to have a heavier sound too while the tenor will have a more brilliant brighter sound
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« Reply #23 on: Feb 13, 2013, 04:55AM »

it sounds like a big large bore tenor (still focused sound, just bigger) it just takes A LOT of air and control.

Unfortunately you're working much harder than you need to.  Is there any way that you can get an actual decent working tenor?  Even by renting one?  I think if you played tried a Bach 42 or even 36, you'd be surprised by how much less effort it takes to play the same stuff you're playing now on the big bass bone.
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« Reply #24 on: Feb 13, 2013, 05:28AM »

Maybe you could post a picture of this horn so we can put this to bed once and for all.
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« Reply #25 on: Feb 13, 2013, 08:43AM »

i say that it "plays in the tenor range" because even my director can barely play below low e-flat below the staff on it, and it easily plays into the alto range (over high a) 
Given that the horn is a beater, it's possible that the valves are messed up. That'd make it difficult to play in the lower register. Even if it were a tenor (which it isn't), those trigger notes just below the staff should be solid.

Another thought - if it's been knocking around the band room for all this time, it's possible that it no longer has its original slide. I've seen repair techs put together some odd combinations when band directors have said: "We don't have much money; just use whatever you've got handy and get it playable."

Don't get into a big argument with your band director on this; you won't win.
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« Reply #26 on: Feb 13, 2013, 11:02AM »

So with both valves depressed you get low E in 1st?  I don't see any advantage to that.  Isn't it much better to have low D in 1st?

It works better to tune the 2nd valve to a flat E. Sure you lose the E in 1st, but the C and B are not quite so far out on the slide. Back when that horn was the state of the art in bass trombones, the manufacturers were basically just looking for a way to add the B to a single valve bass. Later on, the players escalated the arms race, and we got more tunings, inline valves, etc.
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« Reply #27 on: Feb 13, 2013, 12:17PM »

I currently have no money for rental or purchase of a new or different instrument.. i could only get the school horn because it costed $30 for the semester.

Cubes: I have my own Bundy that i got from a pawn shop for $100 when i first started, but it isn't performance-worthy and doesn't blend with my section that is all playing large-bore tenors, most of which are Strads. Though the bass blends pretty well.

Biddlebone: I'm a sophomore in high school (16 years old) and this is my 4th year on trombone (5th on brass, i started trumpet a year before) Next year i'll have one of the school Strads (42's i think)

Mahlerbone: It takes more air, but not more than i produce, i actually find it easier to play than our strads due to its open-ness. (especially the high range..)



sorry about the picture quality, i had to take it on my phone.
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« Reply #28 on: Feb 13, 2013, 02:06PM »

Hmm, it could also be that the Bach Strads haven't been cared for, since you mention that they are school horns.  And if you do a search you'll find that unfortunately there are some bad Bachs out there that are almost unplayable if they were not assembled properly.  I've heard people say that on some it is impossible to find the center on certain notes.

The first thing I would do is get a lesson with a really good pro.  You can have your instructor try out your horn, and tell you if there in fact is a deficiency with the way that it plays.  Most importantly of course, your instructor can teach you basic but necessary fundamentals!
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« Reply #29 on: Feb 13, 2013, 03:01PM »

The Strads are 2 years old and play great. especially in the hands of a good player. Our first trombonist last year played one beautifully, he was a great musician, and i have not heard anyone match (or beat) his tone on it yet.. so  i don't think they're bad strads :-P

i prefer more open equipment, though i'll admit the Strads sound better.

My director thinks my playing is sufficient for the ensemble, and when i ask for critique and advice on things to practice, all he says is that if i'm serious about trombone, and i want to progress i should get lessons with a professional trombonist..
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« Reply #30 on: Feb 13, 2013, 03:04PM »

Quote
he says is that if i'm serious about trombone, and i want to progress i should get lessons with a professional trombonist.

That I agree with 100%!
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Shires T00NLW, 1YM8, 1.5 tuning slide
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Shires B62LW, BI 2G, Bollinger tuning slide, dependent Trubores
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« Reply #31 on: Feb 13, 2013, 03:12PM »

I'm hoping i can get the money for it soon.

Do you think playing the 73 could harm my embouchure?
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« Reply #32 on: Feb 13, 2013, 03:17PM »

I'm hoping i can get the money for it soon.

Do you think playing the 73 could harm my embouchure?

No, I seriously doubt that. As long as you play with good fundamentals you'll be fine.  The only way I could see you harming your embouchure is if you use too much pressure on your lips.

If anything, playing the bass trombone may actually help you for when you go back to a tenor. You'll be used to using a lot of air which may be a good thing.

Keep practicing and good luck!
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Shires alto w/ yellow bell
Shires T00NLW, 1YM8, 1.5 tuning slide
Shires TB47G, 7YLW, TY tuning slide, standard rotor
Shires B62LW, BI 2G, Bollinger tuning slide, dependent Trubores
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« Reply #33 on: Feb 13, 2013, 03:21PM »

Great! :)

Thank you!
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« Reply #34 on: Feb 14, 2013, 12:27AM »

If you're in your 4th year of playing, I'm a bit surprised that you're still playing a school instrument.  But my school trombone experience was in another country and 40-odd years ago, and the school had nothing like a Strad.  IF your director is the sort of person who can bear to be proved wrong, it might be worth one more go at getting hold of the 62H, especially if it's of similar age to the Strads - if you have to play a bass, it may as well be in good condition.  The info I linked to before should be enough to show that Conn have never made a two-valve tenor.
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« Reply #35 on: Feb 16, 2013, 03:24PM »

Back in the Bad Old Days we had only single valve basses and to hit that occasional low B we would pull the tuning slide out to retune the attachment into a flat E and the low B is right at the end of the slide.  We called that the E Pull.

Then we decided to put a second dependent valve to have the E Pull happen easier.  We were happy with that for a while.

Then somebody got the idea to have the dependent valve give you Eb.  This put the low B further up the slide so you didn't have to be a gorilla to reach it, and also put the low C closer as well.

Finally, we came to the idea that maybe we could have the two valves independent.  When this happened, the idea of a Gb tuning for the second valve was tried and it actually made things even easier.  Plus, with the valves being independent, you might use the Gb side (or G side if you were so inclined) instead of the F side to make for easier facility below the staff and into the staff.

Don't discount the value of a dependent valve in flat E.  It can be a lifesaver sometimes.


You forgot the step from Eb to D dependents. That's my fave!
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