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Author Topic: Your trombone teacher lineage?  (Read 14229 times)
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Paul Martin
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« Reply #40 on: Mar 17, 2013, 03:28PM »

Emery Remington > Harold Steiman > me (you'd think I'd be better given the lineage!)



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AxSlinger7String

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« Reply #41 on: Mar 17, 2013, 04:08PM »

John Swallow > Norman Bolter > Me
Denis Wick > Don Lucas > Greg Spiridopoulos > Me

Don Lucas also has a lot more teachers listed in his BU bio, but I didn't want to get to complicated.  That's all I know, this is surprisingly difficult to research when you get past people with a well established public presence.
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Dan Satterwhite

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« Reply #42 on: Mar 17, 2013, 06:41PM »

No, this was the Wind Ensemble at UNT, circa 1983?

You probably didn't notice me sitting there  Hi, I was about 1/3 the diameter of everyone else in that section.

Holton 181?
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Gabe Langfur

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« Reply #43 on: Mar 17, 2013, 07:15PM »

People, please get your facts straight.

Quote
Quote from: jim2014 on Mar 15, 2013, 05:11PM
I only know a little about mine.

Doug Yeo taught
Matt Visconti who taught
Me

Actually, Matt Visconti took occasional lessons with Doug Yeo, but he studied regularly with me at Boston University, and before that with Ron Borror at Hartt.

Also,

John Swallow > Norman Bolter > Me
Denis Wick > Don Lucas > Greg Spiridopoulos > Me

Don Lucas also has a lot more teachers listed in his BU bio, but I didn't want to get to complicated.  That's all I know, this is surprisingly difficult to research when you get past people with a well established public presence.

Greg studied with Ron Barron at BU, not Don Lucas (who wasn't there yet). Greg also studied with Curtis Olson at Michigan State and privately with Milt Stevens.


I studied with lots of people who studied with lots of people. Per Brevig (I don't know who he studied with), Raymond Premru (Emory Remington), Norman Bolter (Yes, John Swallow, but also Steve Zellmer), Matt Guilford (Norman Bolter, John Swallow, Doug Yeo)...but I also studied with a guy named Bob Higgins that many of you will never have heard of but taught me as much as anybody. I've spent a lot of time but only one private lesson with Charlie Vernon. I had one lesson with Sam Burtis that changed a lot of my approaches to playing in a very positive way. I've had one longer session and several quick pointers with Doug Elliott that have been hugely helpful.

And I've learned a tremendous amount from dozens of fantastic colleagues I've had over the years - just by watching how they do what they do and having casual conversations at the breaks of gigs.

Now I learn as much from my interactions with my students as anything else.
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Gabe Langfur
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« Reply #44 on: Mar 17, 2013, 10:23PM »

People, please get your facts straight.

Haha, yeah this thread can easily get out of hand fast with all of the misinformation out there.  An important part of my tree for my lit class was that it had to be someone's primary teacher for a period of time.  If you want to count in all of the single lessons given over the years, it can get absurd.
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Erik Shinn
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John the Theologian
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« Reply #45 on: Mar 20, 2013, 11:08AM »

I studied with Jaroslav Cimera years ago, right at the very end of his career in the mid 1960s.  This was afer he had retired from Northwestern U.  I know that he gave lessons to T. Dorsey and a number of other greats, but I've never know for sure.  Does anyone know his student lineage>
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TNTBONE
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« Reply #46 on: Mar 20, 2013, 11:37AM »

Don Hough-Frank Crisafulli-Ed Kleinhammer-John Swallow
All amazing teachers and great human beings
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jakeway1
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« Reply #47 on: Mar 21, 2013, 04:49AM »

Simone Mantia> Don Wittekind> Me

Reinhardt fits in there somewhere........not sure who Don studied with at Juilliard.

Jimmy Knepper> Me

Jimmy could teach everything he knew about the trombone in 15-20 minutes(according to Jim).......but just playing/hanging at his house was a heckuva education......don't know who Jimmy started with....maybe Sam knows......
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Ken Jackson

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« Reply #48 on: Mar 21, 2013, 05:11AM »


Chris Stearn was right when he said that Denis (Wick) is predominantly self taught, yes he did spend time with Sid Langston, but Sid was so concerned with the idea of a student stealing his work that he didn't really teach!

That was also said to me by Les Lake who held the bass bone seat at ENO for 40 + years, interestingly Les went to music college at the time when you studied tenor trombone only at music college in the UK!
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« Reply #49 on: Mar 21, 2013, 05:29AM »

Jesse Stamp > George Maxted > Maisie Ringham. That line traces itself back into the 19th century.

As Chris Stearn asserts, the brass band tradition was already so well established, that musicians such as the great tubist Harry Barlow and cornet player Harry Mortimer came up through the ranks to join major British orchestras, on which they left a lasting impression. That tradition continues to this day; Lyndon Meredith, for example, is the current bass trombonist in the London Philharmonic Orchestra, formerly of the Desford Colliery Band (and a lovely bloke, too!).
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« Reply #50 on: Mar 21, 2013, 05:59PM »


In the beginning (grade school through high school):
Emory Remington -> Robert Gray -> James Felts -> Me

In college:
Emory Remington -> Robert Gray -> Robert Cross -> Me

More recently:
Emory Remington -> Ralph Sauer -> Me

Incredible that I have been so fortunate to have such connections!!!

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sabutin

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« Reply #51 on: Mar 23, 2013, 10:30AM »

Sorry if I appeared harsh. I studied with Denis Wick and Peter Gane at college. I thought that I pretty much knew, that apart from a brief time with Sid Langston (I think), Denis was to a large extent self taught. His approach to playing was fairly unique and led to a school of playing among his students, elements of which continue on in colleges across the UK and beyond.
I consider people who I have worked with to have also had a considerable influence on how I play, so it is hard to really build an 'influence tree'.
There was no great, long held school of playing here in the UK. Most of the great players from the mid 19th C came through the Brass Bands which covered the country or the military bands or the Salvation Army.
Perhaps over here, these organisations are our real heritage. My start was in Brass Bands and by the time I went to college, my basic approach was already formed.

Chris Stearn

I just found this thread. Finally, about halfway into it someone...Blast, naturally...actually made some sense.

Here it is:

Quote
I consider people who I have worked with to have also had a considerable influence on how I play, so it is hard to really build an 'influence tree'.

And here as well:

Quote
There was no great, long held school of playing here in the UK. Most of the great players from the mid 19th C came through the Brass Bands which covered the country or the military bands or the Salvation Army.
Perhaps over here, these organisations are our real heritage. My start was in Brass Bands and by the time I went to college, my basic approach was already formed.

Unless one lives in some kind of sterile academic bubble...not an entirely uncommon situation today, unfortunately...there is almost no real possibility of a linear "trombone teacher lineage." The entire concept is ludicrous on the face of of it. That anyone could say something like "Emory Remington->Player X->Player Y->Player Z" as some kind of musical "lineage" immediately presupposes that Players X, Y and Z themselves were not seriously influenced by other players.

For example, if I were to try to build an "influence tree"...I like Blast's phrase better...of my own it would have to start with the first trombonists that I ever heard consciously...around 6 years of age while staying summers with my uncle who had been in his youth one of the early white jazz drummers...Dwight "Punky" Allen. He had a great collection of 78 RPM recordings, and Tommy Dorsey/Jack Teagarden were all over them. That never goes away. Never.

Later on...14, 15 years of age...I studied with John Gramm, a NYC orchestral freelancer who had patterned his playing after Gordon Pulis. But at the some time I discovered J.J. Johnson and Urbie Green who were both in their prime at the time. My tree was already getting fairly broad.

Then a couple of years studying tuba at Ithaca College...one year with a french horn player who gave me nothing but Mozart Horn Concerti to learn (He was a Denis Brain devotee...me too now. Probably my favorite "brass player" of all time.) and another with an ex-U.S. Navy Band tuba player who idolized Bill Bell.

Then two more years at Berklee...one w/John Coffey and the next with Phil Wilson. The tree is now all over the lot.

Then a couple of years in NYC w/Jack Nowinski, who studied with Emory Remington but also loved Gordon Pulis's playing. Then a number of years with Carmine Caruso, who with the possible exception of his upbringing in a first/second  generation Italian home seems to have popped out of the musical womb entirely uninfluenced by anybody.

Meanwhile, at the same time I was playing with a group of NYC trombonists who were living, breathing "teachers" every time they picked up their horns. A short list might include:

Wayne Andre
Eddie Bert
Paul Faulise
Urbie Green
Slide Hampton
Jimmy Knepper
Julian Priester
José Rodrigues
Barry Rogers
Sonny Russo
Dave Taylor
Bill Watrous
Britt Woodman

And many, many more. And these were just the trombone players!!! Where does one slot people like Jimmy Maxwell, Snooky Young, Thad Jones, Frank Foster, Frank Wess, Jerry Dodgion, Pepper Adams, Travis Jenkins, Chocolaté, Mario Bauza and hundreds more in this "influence tree?" It had turned into an influence orchard before I was 25 years old; I haven't even mentioned the people I heard live or on recordings and I was just beginning to even learn how to practice!!!

I got yer "influence tree", right here!!!



More like an influence forest, seems like to me.

Maybe back when travel was slow and hard, back when there were no recordings it might have been possible to construct some sort of accurate trombone teacher lineage idea, but now? No way. Not unless...as I said before...not unless you are somehow sequestered in some sort of idyllic academic scene where the real world simply does not impinge on your diligent studies.

Hell...I'm still trying to figure out how to hold the slide!!!

Jack Teagarden?

J.J. Johnson?

Simone Mantia?

Tommy Dorsey?

Jimmy Knepper?

Joe Alessi?

Damned if I know.

Anyways...gotta go practice now.

The forest calls.

Later...

S.

P.S. And I haven't even mentioned the players of my own age and the succeeding several generations, many of whom are also constant teachers to me. Nor have I spoken of the great trombone designers. I have owned and played on horns and equipment designed and made by Vincent Bach, Earl Williams, Larry Minick, the great designers at King and Conn in the pre and post WWII years and Steve Shires. An influence "universe" might be a better term. Bet on it.
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Visit <http://samburtis.com/>. Lots of information on that site in the form of articles plus a link to my method book "Time, Balance & Connections-A Universal Theory Of Brass Relativity" which includes several chapters of the book.
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« Reply #52 on: Mar 23, 2013, 10:52AM »

Now, you all may think taking just a few lessons from someone is not significant but consider that in some religions the mere "laying on of hands" is enough to transfer certain divine powers. Clever

Hmmm... maybe I just never got groped by the right trombone players...   Don't know






Holton 181?

Oh, the shame of it...  :cry:
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Robert Holmén

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« Reply #53 on: Mar 29, 2013, 12:58PM »

Remington - My Teachers ( Hal Reynolds, Richard Myers, David Atwater, Wes Hanson) - Me
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« Reply #54 on: Apr 01, 2013, 01:49PM »

Here is a list of Les Professeurs de Trombone at the Paris Conservatoire going back to 1795



Trombone Ténor
-> CNSMD de Paris
1795-1800 : Philippe Widerkehr
1800-1802 : Pierre-François Marcillac
1836-1871 : Antoine Dieppo (né en 1808 en Hollande, soliste à l'Opéra et à la Société des Concerts du Conservatoire, il était très apprecié de Berlioz)
1871-1888 : Paul Lespagne dit "Delisse" (né en 1817, soliste à l'Opéra Comique et à la Société des Concerts du Conservatoire)
1888-1925 : Louis Allard (né en 1852 à Porto Rico, soliste à l'Opéra Comique et à la Société des Concerts du Conservatoire, a transcrit beaucoup d'oeuvres pour trombone)
1925-1948 : Henri Couillaud (né en 1878 à Bourg-la-Reine, soliste à l'Opéra, à la Société des Concerts du Conservatoire et à la Garde Républicaine, a écrit des études pour trombone)
1948-1960 : André Lafosse (né en 1890 à Marly-le-roi, soliste à l'Opéra et à l'Orchestre Lamoureux)
1960-1982 : Gérard Pichaureau (né en 1916 à Chinon, soliste à la Garde Républicaine et à la Société des Concerts du Conservatoire)
1982-aujourd'hui : Gilles Millière (né en 1952 à Savières, soliste à l'Opéra)
-> CNSMD de Lyon
En 1980, le CNSM de Lyon est créé avec la classe de trombone dirigée par Michel Becquet.
1980-aujourd'hui : Michel Becquet (né en 1954 à Limoges, soliste à l'Opéra)

 

Trombone Basse
-> CNSMD de Paris
En 1948, la classe de tuba/saxhorn est créée par Paul Bernard. A partir de 1953, l'enseignement du trombone basse apparait au Conservatoire et est rattaché à la classe de tuba/saxhorn. Il y a alors quatre étudiants pour chaque instrument (tuba, saxhorn et trombone basse).
1953-1980 : Paul Bernard (professeur de tuba/saxhorn/trombone basse)
1980-1982 : André Leger (professeur de tuba/saxhorn/trombone basse)
En 1982, Guy Destanque créé la classe de trombone basse indépendante.
1982-1984 : Guy Destanque
1984-2005 : Claude Chevaillier (soliste à l'Opéra de Paris)
2005-aujourd'hui: Olivier Devaure (soliste à l'Orchestre National de France)
-> CNSMD de Lyon
En 1992, Frédéric Potier créé la classe de trombone basse au CNSMD de Lyon.
1992-aujourd'hui : Frédéric Potier (soliste à l'Opéra de Paris)

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Robert Holmén

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David A Bratcher
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« Reply #55 on: Apr 07, 2013, 07:55AM »

Emory Remington to Robert Gray to Douglas Lemmon to me.  But I also studied with Tom Ashworth at the University of Minnesota and I think Vern Kagarice was a teacher of his.  I also studied with Vern AND Jan Kagarice when Tom was in Australia on sabbatical.  I had one lesson with Scott Moore at Gustavus Adolphus College and he changed how I play for the better.  I have been influenced by people I haven't met but read their posts here such as Sam Burtis and Doug Elliot to name two. 

DB
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« Reply #56 on: Apr 14, 2013, 11:37PM »

Simone Mantia>Dr. Carl Lobitz>Me
Frank Crisafulli>Dr. Carl Lobitz>Me
Emory Remington>Dr. Carl Lobitz>Me
William Cramer>Doc Marcellus>Me

Something along those lines

-Nick Conn
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« Reply #57 on: Apr 09, 2014, 07:37AM »

I'm studying to get my bachelor's in performance at the University of Oregon. So far, I've only had two teachers. One was Charles Reneau, the bass trombone of the Oregon symphony.
So he studied with Per Brevig, and then I was taught by him.
My Current professor's history looks a little something like this:
Carl Lenthe> Henry Henniger> Me.
I feel a bit silly because I have no clue who was on the faculty at Curtis when Carl went there.
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Nick Ivers
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« Reply #58 on: Apr 09, 2014, 10:43AM »

Dave Carpenter (bassoonist, high school teacher)
Dick Rabideau
Bud Bentley - (early 80s - vermont symphony bass bone)
Robert Wigness (1982 Vermont Symphony)
Richard Reifsnyder (1983 Ithaca College)
John Swallow (1984 New England Conservatory)



I learned the most from Bentley and Swallow - very different styles. Bentley was a big bass bone teacher from the Vermont Symphony when I was in high school who really formed my sound, even though I'm a tenor player. Swallow really helped me learn how to use the slide, alternate positions, lip slurs, phrasing.

I've also had some coaching sessions with Norman Bolter, and single sessions with Doug Elliott, John Marcellus, Richard Cryder.
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Paul Martin
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« Reply #59 on: Apr 09, 2014, 11:53AM »

Dave Carpenter (bassoonist, high school teacher)
Dick Rabideau
Bud Bentley - (early 80s - vermont symphony bass bone)
Robert Wigness (1982 Vermont Symphony)
Richard Reifsnyder (1983 Ithaca College)
John Swallow (1984 New England Conservatory)



I learned the most from Bentley and Swallow - very different styles. Bentley was a big bass bone teacher from the Vermont Symphony when I was in high school who really formed my sound, even though I'm a tenor player. Swallow really helped me learn how to use the slide, alternate positions, lip slurs, phrasing.

I've also had some coaching sessions with Norman Bolter, and single sessions with Doug Elliott, John Marcellus, Richard Cryder.

That's "who you've had lessons with;"  who were your teachers' teachers?
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