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Author Topic: Differences in repair-ability  (Read 1323 times)
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sdoubler
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« on: Feb 21, 2014, 04:34PM »

Hey everyone,

I recently had to buy a used car, and in talking to my mechanic he added in "ease of repair" as a category.  Some engines are laid out logically and accessibly, while others it seems like you always have to take things out to get to other things, leading to higher labor costs in repairs.

I can't find a thread already in existence as to the repair-ability of different trombone brands/vintages/models.  I think this info would be great to share with my private students as well as with some band directors I know.  For instance, a high school where I teach lessons once a week obtained 2 Cerveny tubas a while back.  The band director got a good deal, but did not know that Cerveny bells are made with thinner metal than certain other tuba brands.  Not a big deal for responsible users, but after a few years those Cerveny bells are crinkling and pancaking from the students standing the horns up on the bell (which they are repeatedly warned not to do...).  No such problem with the school's Yamaha tubas. 

Is there a thread on TTF about this?  If not I would love to hear some of the great techs throw out their perspective on easily repaired vs. difficult-to-repair or injury-prone trombones.  I assume metal/alloy quality, consistency of soldering technique, and brace placement differences are factors, among many other things?

Thanks!


 




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daveyboy37

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« Reply #1 on: Feb 21, 2014, 09:21PM »

parts are one of the biggest issues. Some companies are relatively easy to get replacement parts from, while others are next to impossible.
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David Sullivan
Bass Trombone - Livingston Symphony Orchestra
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« Reply #2 on: Feb 21, 2014, 09:25PM »

"The Slide Doctor" says he will NOT work on Chinese trombones.
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Robert Holmén

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sdoubler
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« Reply #3 on: Feb 23, 2014, 10:32AM »

Nice points.  Buying off brand may be cheaper for a band director but if repair shops don't have easy access to replacement parts the horn will have a short life on the marching field.

I'd be curious to know more about what issues make the Chinese slides unrepairable (or simply too much of a time investment) for veteran techs like the Slide Dr.  Is it all of the above (poor materials assembled poorly) or one particular issue?

 
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robcat2075

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« Reply #4 on: Feb 23, 2014, 12:05PM »

I'm not sure. 

My guess was that perhaps the Chinese instruments were not made of as many parts assembled in the conventional fashion so that removing something or adjusting it first by detaching it might not be possible?  Don't know

Hopefully one of the repair guys will chime in.
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Robert Holmén

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Cubes
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« Reply #5 on: Feb 23, 2014, 01:50PM »

I think it has something to do with parts being virtually impossible to obtain and it being cheaper and easier to buy an entire new one than to hunt down parts for it

Plus ive heard some of it is low quality stuff that is easy to melt
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« Reply #6 on: Feb 23, 2014, 02:24PM »

Yes,

Cubes had it right.  VERY cheap Chinese horns are exactly what you paid for.  A disposable good.  With literally ZERO parts availability for the majority of off brand Chinese instruments and parts that often break when repairs are attempted you get huge liability issues for repair techs.  I simply Won't do much of any servicing on many of the Chinese instruments.  I would service them IF, 1:  they were distributed with a place I could get parts 2:  they were made of decent quality parts.

Biggest problems with Chinese trombones:

1:  Plating on the inner slide tubes.  Most of the time on the really low end stuff it starts to flake in 6 months.  Plating instrument parts correctly takes a lot money to do well. Those corners are being cut.

2:  Loose tolerances on the slides.  These loose tolerances require less straightening of the tubes and result in a passable slide with much less pressure sealing that a more mainstream accepted instrument. 

3:  Badly machined rotor valves and crummy linkages.  On the cheap F attachment horns this is the case, horns like the JP Rath horns are much better made, and cost more due to both QA and a dealer infrastructure to support the instruments they sell.  You pay for support of your instrument whether you are aware of it or not.

I don't want to be liable for working on a horn that's inner slide tube break as I am attempting to straight it, so I decline that type of work.

Benn
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BGuttman
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« Reply #7 on: Feb 23, 2014, 02:44PM »

Thanks Benn.  This is really what the OP was probably looking for.

In addition, parts are not really interchangeable so you can't just slap an inner from a Conn 6H on that broken J Michael and expect it to work properly.

This means that replacement parts if not available have to be fabricated -- a very expensive repair for a low cost horn.  Nobody's going to want to spend $300 for a part to fix a $250 horn.
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Bruce Guttman
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« Reply #8 on: Feb 23, 2014, 06:29PM »

I hope recent Jupiter horn is on the easier side if repair-ability. I remember my friend told me about her elementary school band director that replaced whole trombone section from Jupiter to Yamaha due to some service-related issue. I am not sure if they were not repairable or too expensive to repair.
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The Marching Virginians
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« Reply #9 on: Feb 24, 2014, 05:59AM »


Biggest problems with Chinese trombones:

1:  Plating on the inner slide tubes.  Most of the time on the really low end stuff it starts to flake in 6 months.  Plating instrument parts correctly takes a lot money to do well. Those corners are being cut.

2:  Loose tolerances on the slides.  These loose tolerances require less straightening of the tubes and result in a passable slide with much less pressure sealing that a more mainstream accepted instrument. 

3:  Badly machined rotor valves and crummy linkages.  On the cheap F attachment horns this is the case, horns like the JP Rath horns are much better made, and cost more due to both QA and a dealer infrastructure to support the instruments they sell.  You pay for support of your instrument whether you are aware of it or not.

I don't want to be liable for working on a horn that's inner slide tube break as I am attempting to straight it, so I decline that type of work.

Benn


Or, to paraphrase the old joke -
"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like your trombone?"  :D ;-) :D
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