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Author Topic: If you could own only one horn  (Read 3009 times)
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Practiceathome
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« on: Mar 23, 2014, 06:52AM »

I am starting to get back into playing and wanted to know which is easier:
Faking bass parts on a tenor or faking tenor parts on a bass?  I would like to MAYBE sell my 8H and buy one good F horn to cover both tenor and bass parts.  What has been your experience with that sort of thing?  I know a two horn solution is better, but until finances are more comfortable I would like to look at a one horn solution; a multipurpose horn that can be used for tenor AND bass with the least amount of compromise.  I welcome your recommendations.

Thank you

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Matt K

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« Reply #1 on: Mar 23, 2014, 07:04AM »

You probably won't be able so sell an 8H for enough to get a single rotor bass for starters. It really depends on context... big band?  You definitely don't want to be playing tenor parts with a bass unless you're Slide Hampton.  You can kind of get away with the other way around, so you'd probably want a tenor. Plenty of good deals on those. You might want to contact DJ Kennedy and see if he'd swap.
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What's in a name? that which we call a tenor-bass posaune
By any other name would smell as sweet;
Practiceathome
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« Reply #2 on: Mar 23, 2014, 07:15AM »

Thanks Matt.  I have always liked the large bore tenor sound from guys like Turre, Hampton, and Fuller, so I know what I am getting into by attempting to go large for tenor parts.  I would like to do some big band jazz (certainly not lead), mostly brass choir, and maybe some concert band/orchestra at the local college.  Time will tell.  I know it will be a compromise horn.  I just want to minimize the compromise as much as I can.

I have always been more comfortable on the 547, even for jazz.  The more I think about it the more I think I should keep my 8H.  It is a very decent jazz horn; just not a very dexterous horn.  What it really comes down to is buying a second horn to cover large tenor parts requiring the F valve AND bass parts.  That should narrow it down a bit.
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BGuttman
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« Reply #3 on: Mar 23, 2014, 07:27AM »

I think the standard jack of all trades horn when you may be called to do anything is the symphonic bore tenor with an F-attachment.  Maybe add an 88H so you effectively have a spare slide for either horn.  The F-attachment will allow you to cover most bass trombone parts (old style closed wrap allows for E-pull for a little more versatility).

If I know I'm not going to need to play bass, I like a Medium Bore as my go-to horn.  I have a Bach 36C that lets me ease into the higher parts better -- even play big band lead.
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Matt K

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« Reply #4 on: Mar 23, 2014, 08:37AM »

Thanks Matt.  I have always liked the large bore tenor sound from guys like Turre, Hampton, and Fuller, so I know what I am getting into by attempting to go large for tenor parts.  I would like to do some big band jazz (certainly not lead), mostly brass choir, and maybe some concert band/orchestra at the local college.  Time will tell.  I know it will be a compromise horn.  I just want to minimize the compromise as much as I can.

I have always been more comfortable on the 547, even for jazz.  The more I think about it the more I think I should keep my 8H.  It is a very decent jazz horn; just not a very dexterous horn.  What it really comes down to is buying a second horn to cover large tenor parts requiring the F valve AND bass parts.  That should narrow it down a bit.


Well, Slide played on a bass, not a tenor   Eeek! I wonder how much of that was mouthpiece choices available. I do well on a larger rim size, and at one point there were a lot more options for large born horns that had rim sizes that I feel comfortable on. 

If you're a Conn guy you can pick up a number of used instruments on the cheap with F attachments.  Or Blessing. I know a guy selling a Blessing 88 (F attach clone of your horn) for $250 last I checked.  It isn't a bass, but you seem to be aware and okay with the idea you probably won't get an authentic bass sound out of a tenor.
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What's in a name? that which we call a tenor-bass posaune
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Rockymountaintrombone
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« Reply #5 on: Mar 23, 2014, 09:04AM »

One other idea - if you can find a good F attachment section that can be made compatible with your 8H, you could have a good repair person convert your 8H to have a removable valve section. You could use the 8H straight section for the things you're playing on it now, and plug in a trigger section for other uses.

Jim Scott
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bonesmarsh
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« Reply #6 on: Mar 23, 2014, 09:23AM »

I'll settle this once and for all and save you a bundle of money.

Conn slides of a certain size are interchangeable.
1. Buy a good used Conn 52H. Its supposed to be an intermediate horn-- but its not. Its a GREAT horn of the top quality. A Conn 52H is a dual bore .525/ .547 bore small shank slide, matched with a great King 4BF valve section. But, because its a Conn, and not a King, the threading and tenons are Conn, and not King/reversed.

2.You will now have the option to play-
A. A really fantastic dual bore F attachment horn with a .525/ .547 slide
B. A slightly larger really fantastic .547 F attachment horn horn with the 8H slide and 4BF bell section.
C. A straight 8H.
D. A Straight 8H bell section on a .525 / .547 slide. ( Like Ralph Sauer!!)

You're welcome.
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dezignstuff
« Reply #7 on: Mar 23, 2014, 09:43AM »

Similar to Bonesmarsh's solution, get a 89h (convertible 88h) with a 525/547 slide. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CEIQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.parsonsmusic.com.hk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F06%2FConn_88H_Trombone_Catalog.pdf&ei=-AwvU_LdB4PMqQHq04H4Dw&usg=AFQjCNH1glUrTIfdy2vBUaRu6XL9yhKIsA&sig2=rgU2vyRw7hWjg1ICOeI3ew&bvm=bv.62922401,d.aWM

This comes with 3 lead pipes, for small and large shank. Then you can get a 547/562 slide, with 3 lead pipes. Throw in a couple of mouthpieces (5g and 3g) and you've got about 6 horns worth of kit. http://www.dillonmusic.com/p-19931-conn-handslide.aspx
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Radar

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« Reply #8 on: Mar 23, 2014, 04:04PM »

If I had to get rid of all my horns but one the one I would keep would be my 88H.  The large bore tenor, with F attachment that can be pulled to E got me through the few times I had to play bass parts. 
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Dukesboneman

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« Reply #9 on: Mar 23, 2014, 06:23PM »

If I had to get rid of all but one one horn it would have to be my Mount Vernon 36.
I have a fantastic Lt12G, Lt16MG, Lt16M, 2B Valve/slide combo, but nothing plays like my 36
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Rathrombones
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« Reply #10 on: Mar 23, 2014, 06:34PM »

Instead of having to choose between tenor and bass, you could go with a double rotor tenor trombone Evil, i believe that Schagerl used to make one a while ago (with two hagmanns)
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Michael Medrick

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« Reply #11 on: Mar 23, 2014, 06:38PM »

If I had to get rid of all but one one horn it would have to be my Mount Vernon 36.
I have a fantastic Lt12G, Lt16MG, Lt16M, 2B Valve/slide combo, but nothing plays like my 36

Well said, DBM!  I have a love/hate relationship with bass bone...

If I didn't need to do that my convertible Bach 36 could get many jobs done...
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Matt K

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« Reply #12 on: Mar 23, 2014, 06:45PM »

Instead of having to choose between tenor and bass, you could go with a double rotor tenor trombone Evil, i believe that Schagerl used to make one a while ago (with two hagmanns)

Woudln't be too dififcult, I'm sure there are a lot of rotors sitting around collecting dust. I have two myself that I'll probably never use...
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What's in a name? that which we call a tenor-bass posaune
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Dennis Clason

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« Reply #13 on: Mar 23, 2014, 07:50PM »

I have 3: a '72 36B, a mid-50s 3B (valve-slide combo) and 2000s 50T3G.

But for years, the only instrument I had was the 36.  I've played everything on that horn: bass parts (with a 1 1/2 G on a small shank), orchestral 1st and 2nd, all parts in bands/wind ensembles, all parts in jazz ensembles ...

If I could only have one horn, it would be my 36 (or something very like it -- maybe a 79H or a .525 Shires).  I'd love for it to be convertible, and if I were buying a new one that would be a criterion.  But if it couldn't be a convertible, it would have a valve of some sort.
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« Reply #14 on: Mar 23, 2014, 07:53PM »

Bach 36 hands down
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Practiceathome
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« Reply #15 on: Mar 23, 2014, 08:21PM »

Thanks guys.  I did not expect this kind of response.  I really appreciate it.
I am a little surprised nobody is speaking up for the King Gravis or the King 5B.  Is the 5B too large for typical large bore tenor work?  I played one in high school and for some pit orchestra "work" (my bass skills left something to be desired).  I loved that horn but I do not know if it is too large for tenor work.  Opinions anybody?
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Rathrombones
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« Reply #16 on: Mar 23, 2014, 08:41PM »

Thanks guys.  I did not expect this kind of response.  I really appreciate it.
I am a little surprised nobody is speaking up for the King Gravis or the King 5B.  Is the 5B too large for typical large bore tenor work?  I played one in high school and for some pit orchestra "work" (my bass skills left something to be desired).  I loved that horn but I do not know if it is too large for tenor work.  Opinions anybody?

The 5B could be suitable for some tenor work, I believe it would be fine for something such as a fourth part in an ensemble. Perhaps not the greatest idea on the higher parts compared to other horns that could execute those parts better...
Just my opinion :)
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Full Pedal Trombonist

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« Reply #17 on: Mar 23, 2014, 08:47PM »

Personally I would keep my bass if I could not play any of my others. With a change of leadpipe and a shallower mouthpiece underpart I could probably get away with using it as a tenor somewhere. If I could only have one from the start I would want, again a bass, but a small bass. Something that could pretend to be a tenor easier than my monster.

I LOVE the 52H idea. That sounds like the perfect tenor combo, and 8H and a 52H.
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« Reply #18 on: Mar 24, 2014, 04:02AM »

I have a Bach 36 that I will never part with.    It would be the one I would keep if all the others had to go.
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« Reply #19 on: Mar 24, 2014, 07:03AM »

I would put in a vote for the Conn 72H. I played one through college, using it for everything, from principal in orchestra to bass in the big band. It is one of the few horns that I have found to work well with a variety of mouthpiece choices. I used a 5G on tenor parts and a 3G on bass parts back then, and have since played it with a 1-1/2G. Can't say my Courtois bass or 42B will work well with that range of mouthpiece sizes.
My husband would probably say similar things about his King 1480, though.
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