C tuba? CC tuba?

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BFW:
Hopefully an easy question about tubas...

I've seen a bunch of references to CC tubas recently.  My understanding of octave nomenclature related to things like BB vs B is that note :bassclef:  :space2: is named "c", this note  :bassclef:  :line2: is named "B", and the note an octave below this  :bassclef:  :space2: is named "C" (Great C).   A step below that would be BB, hence the BBb tuba, where BBb is the lowest non-pedal note with all valves up.  CC would be a seventh below that.  It is my understanding that a tuba tuned to C is a step higher than a BBb tuba.  That would make it a C tuba, not a CC tuba.  Is there in fact a commonly-played really huge CC tuba that is a seventh below the BBb tuba, or is the name being misapplied?

bluenite:
http://www.dwerden.com/tu-articles-thoughts.cfm

and scroll down a bit. There's an instrument called a C tuba which the French used. Its to my understanding that euphonium players tend to play the parts that called for a C tuba.

Paul Fletcher:
My understanding, such as it is, is:

When talking about Bb, Eb or F tubas, the doubling of the letter indicates a larger bore and bell and the same pitch.  So a Bb tuba is pitched an octave lower than a trombone, just the same as a BBb tuba, but the latter is bigger in dimensions other than length.

A Bb tuba shaped thing the same pitch as a trombone is usually called a euph, but sometimes a tenor tuba.

But when talking about C tubas, the double letter indicates the pitch is a seventh lower than a trombone, i.e. between a Bb and Eb tuba.  But a C tuba with a single C is the French one, whose fundamental is actually higher than that of a trombone, but it has six valves to make up for it, and an enormous range, and is a tuba not a euphonium.

I want somebody to make me a French  C tuba but in Bb, a tone lower, because I think that would be a wonderful instrument.  But I don't suppose they will.

So the actual anwer to your actual question is, yes the name is being misapplied.  Napoleon obviously wasn't a musician or we might now have SI units for notes :amazed:

Paul

Mathbone:
And of course, America would be aggravated and insist on using H-N for note names.... :evil:  :evil:  :evil:

Edward_Solomon:
Quote from: "paulfletcher"

My understanding, such as it is, is:

When talking about Bb, Eb or F tubas, the doubling of the letter indicates a larger bore and bell and the same pitch.  So a Bb tuba is pitched an octave lower than a trombone, just the same as a BBb tuba, but the latter is bigger in dimensions other than length.

A Bb tuba shaped thing the same pitch as a trombone is usually called a euph, but sometimes a tenor tuba.

But when talking about C tubas, the double letter indicates the pitch is a seventh lower than a trombone, i.e. between a Bb and Eb tuba.  But a C tuba with a single C is the French one, whose fundamental is actually higher than that of a trombone, but it has six valves to make up for it, and an enormous range, and is a tuba not a euphonium.

I want somebody to make me a French  C tuba but in Bb, a tone lower, because I think that would be a wonderful instrument.  But I don't suppose they will.

So the actual anwer to your actual question is, yes the name is being misapplied.  Napoleon obviously wasn't a musician or we might now have SI units for notes :amazed:

Paul


All absolutely correct, Paul. The only time I've seen BB flat applied to trombones is for the contrabass, but strictly speaking what you've said is quite correct and it shouldn't really be used for the contrabass trombone. The way I've understood things is exactly as Paul describes and that is mainly because I used to double on E flat tuba years ago but not on an EE flat tuba, such as is used in orchestras. Brass bands used to be the habitat of the single E flat and B flat basses until they also became involved in the "arms race" of larger bells and bore sizes. More's the pity, for the smaller tubas have a sound that is a little less like a "gormless bellow", to use the words of the late, great John "fletch" Fletcher.

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