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The Trombone ForumHorns, Gear, and EquipmentMouthpieces(Moderators: BGuttman, Doug Elliott) Where to buy a historically-based sackbut mouthpiece?
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tbonedude89

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« on: Dec 20, 2014, 02:06PM »

Hey all,

I'm about to start seriously learning to play the sackbut.  My university has an alto, several tenors, and a bass, but they don't have any mouthpieces.  Where is a good place to start looking for an affordable sackbut mouthpiece (that could work for a tenor or bass)?  It doesn't have to be completely period correct, but I'm looking for something actually designed to be used with a sackbut (not a small shank tenor mouthpiece).

Thank you!
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Matt K

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« Reply #1 on: Dec 20, 2014, 02:55PM »

Doug makes a shank for sacbuts.  That makes a huge difference compared to using one meant for a trombone. Perhaps not totally auhentic, but I use lexan rims exclusively... not a feature found on several hundred year old mouthpieces  Evil  I even have one for alto sacbut. Definitely not as authentic as I'm using a 3G rim on a 12Cish cup, but way better than the coronet mouthpiece our universities' alto sacbut came with.  They are kind of pricey if you don't already have one of his pieces to use it with though.

Perhaps contact Wessex. They just released a line of sacbutts.  They may sell the mouthpieces they come with.
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octavposaune

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« Reply #2 on: Dec 20, 2014, 03:42PM »

Geert Van De Hiede (sp) and Egger make good period pieces.  You must specify what shank you have.  Many modern reproductions use Medium shank pieces for some reason. I personally don't know what originals are like since there was no such thing as standardization back in the Renaissance. If a small standard shank fits them fairly well then make certain to tell that to the mouthpiece maker.  My bass uses a trumpet sized shank.  (It has about a .460" bore)
« Last Edit: Dec 21, 2014, 09:51AM by octavposaune » Logged
Bcschipper
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« Reply #3 on: Dec 20, 2014, 07:13PM »

Check out the baroque trombone mouthpieces made by Schmidt http://www.schmidt-brass.de/englisch/mouthpieces-trombone.htm (need to scroll down).
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heinz gries

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« Reply #4 on: Dec 21, 2014, 04:56AM »

Josef Klier and B. Tilz in germany makes sackbut mouthpieces to.

http://josefklier.de/mouthpieces/baroque-trumpet-baroque-trombone/?lang=en
http://www.mundstueckbau-tilz.de/index.php/barockmundstuecke

What kind of sackbuts (brand) does your university have? Finke Alto and Tenor sackbuts needs a trumpet shank.
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« Reply #5 on: Dec 21, 2014, 06:11PM »

I'm a dealer for van der heide. I can recommend a few other options as well. Email me noah@brassark.com or send a PM
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baroquetrombone

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« Reply #6 on: Jan 07, 2015, 11:19AM »

sent you a pm
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sackbut-Nate

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« Reply #7 on: Feb 14, 2017, 06:33PM »

Forget Klier and and Tilz, and Schmidt except for the "Heide" model.  Same with Romera.  They might be functional, but won't provide anything like a historically authentic response.

Geert Jan van der Heide's mouthpieces are by and large the industry standard; the Egger R series, and Christian Bosc's Baroque trombone mouthpieces are both based on one of van der Heide's mouthpieces, and are also commendable.

However, none of these really go the whole nine yards to historical construction.  The closest you'll get is an Egger SO-7, or if that doesn't fit, a custom job...
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« Reply #8 on: Feb 15, 2017, 07:17AM »

Nate,

Would you be willing to speak more about the Egger SO-7? Do you know what it is based on? What makes it different than a VdH mouthpiece?

Thanks!
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« Reply #9 on: Feb 15, 2017, 07:49AM »

Nate,

Would you be willing to speak more about the Egger SO-7? Do you know what it is based on? What makes it different than a VdH mouthpiece?

Thanks!

That's the one thats based on the Verona Schnitzer, isn't it? If it's what I'm thinking, Greg has one (but still doesn't play it as much as the vdH). I'll leave the details to Nate.

I'm considering checking one out, but it would be nice to have a slightly deeper one than Greg's, as 90% of the time I'm playing lower than he is. Any idea if Egger does/would do that, Nate?

Also, fwiw, Mack has a bass mouthpiece of similar construction (but one piece) that was made by Herb Myers. It was carefully based on an original, but I can't remember what original at the moment. It's HUGE compared to what either of us play on bass, so Mack has tried it on the contra, but continues to return to the smaller vdH pieces, as he finds the other one impossible to control between soft and "you're fired" volume levels.

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« Reply #10 on: Feb 15, 2017, 08:45AM »

I bought an Egger B-series mpc for a concert of early to high Baroque music last summer. It's an excellent Baroque mpc, although the very sharp and flat rim took a lot of adjustment (I'm primarily a bass trombonist). Barry Baugess at the Baroque Trumpet Workshop carries the entire Egger line: https://www.baroquetrumpet.com. The organizer of the concert plays a van der Heide mpc, but he liked the Egger.

From everything I've read and heard, van der Heide makes reproduction mouthpieces that are considered the gold standard amongst the HIP crowd. Contact Noah (Slipmo).

If I were more serious about playing sacbut (and had the $$$ to spend), I would seriously consider an Egger or an Ewald Meinl instrument and a van der Heide mpc.
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renbaroque
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« Reply #11 on: Feb 17, 2017, 12:38AM »

Here's one. 24,5mm is about as big as I'd go, too, unless you have serious problem with small rims. (12-size rim isn't really small, either)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/282362019205
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karexobasstrombone
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« Reply #12 on: Feb 17, 2017, 04:21AM »

I got three pieces from Geert Van De Hiede to try on my Ewald Meinl bass sackbut. They were all really good and I kept them for a few weeks to try them well. Send him an email and he'll help you out choosing one for your instrument  ;-)
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baroquetrombone

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« Reply #13 on: Feb 17, 2017, 08:48AM »

Here's one. 24,5mm is about as big as I'd go, too, unless you have serious problem with small rims. (12-size rim isn't really small, either)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/282362019205

Fyi, that's MaestroHound's. http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,98095.0.html
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MaestroHound
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« Reply #14 on: Feb 17, 2017, 09:32AM »


Heh, busted, yes indeed it is mine. I happen to have a little "music stand video" of myself playing this exact one. It's a couple of years ago when I had just started to study historical trombone full time, so please excuse moments of me going "modern" in style in this one... (Also do not hold my creepy appearance be held against it--I did sanitize it!)

https://youtu.be/6lpz4oAu8uM

I love this one 5 days out of a week, but I become one of those who "have serious problem with small rims" when my face is bloated or something. Its size is on that fine line I cross depending on the daily condition.

Contact me through TTF for more wiggle room in price if anyone is interested. I can go lower here compared with on eBay.
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« Reply #15 on: Feb 17, 2017, 06:28PM »

Also, fwiw, Mack has a bass mouthpiece of similar construction (but one piece) that was made by Herb Myers. It was carefully based on an original, but I can't remember what original at the moment. It's HUGE compared to what either of us play on bass, so Mack has tried it on the contra, but continues to return to the smaller vdH pieces, as he finds the other one impossible to control between soft and "you're fired" volume levels.

Is this another Schnitzer replica, maybe?? I am not familiar with the one made by Herb Myers, but I tried the one Nate made briefly and liked it. But it was indeed huge. Felt like a 4G or maybe even larger on the face (I'm talking 26mm or larger), and it was light--feel, and also physically. It did look similar to the tenor Schnitzer from the outside. I vaguely remember that Nate said it was exact copy of a Schnitzer bass mouthpiece that he made. How "HUGE" are you talking about Mack's??
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baroquetrombone

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« Reply #16 on: Feb 20, 2017, 03:44PM »

Is this another Schnitzer replica, maybe?? I am not familiar with the one made by Herb Myers, but I tried the one Nate made briefly and liked it. But it was indeed huge. Felt like a 4G or maybe even larger on the face (I'm talking 26mm or larger), and it was light--feel, and also physically. It did look similar to the tenor Schnitzer from the outside. I vaguely remember that Nate said it was exact copy of a Schnitzer bass mouthpiece that he made. How "HUGE" are you talking about Mack's??

Sorry, M, I wanted to wait until I could find the pics and promptly forget to reply at all. The good news is that I found the pics. I'm hoping that neither Mack nor Herb mind them being on here....

The comparison is with my tenor mouthpiece, which as you know is pretty small. The bass piece doesn't look all that crazy in the photos, I'll admit, but I promise that it feels like trying to play a cereal bowl- at least to me.





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eggerinstruments
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« Reply #17 on: Feb 21, 2017, 08:32AM »

That's the one thats based on the Verona Schnitzer, isn't it? If it's what I'm thinking, Greg has one (but still doesn't play it as much as the vdH). I'll leave the details to Nate.

I'm considering checking one out, but it would be nice to have a slightly deeper one than Greg's, as 90% of the time I'm playing lower than he is. Any idea if Egger does/would do that, Nate?

Yes to baroquetrombone, the SOT-7 is copied from the Schnitzer mouthpiece in Verona. The dimensions are: rim 23 x 37, cup depth 18, bore 8, length 94. We can make one with a slightly deeper cup if it is an order. It is not possible to make it much deeper because of the outer shape.

<Edit: Merged two posts>
« Last Edit: Feb 21, 2017, 09:14AM by BGuttman » Logged
baroquetrombone

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« Reply #18 on: Mar 06, 2017, 02:50PM »

Yes to baroquetrombone, the SOT-7 is copied from the Schnitzer mouthpiece in Verona. The dimensions are: rim 23 x 37, cup depth 18, bore 8, length 94. We can make one with a slightly deeper cup if it is an order. It is not possible to make it much deeper because of the outer shape.

<Edit: Merged two posts>

Oh, excellent! When I have time, I'll look more into this. Thanks for responding.
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sackbut-Nate

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« Reply #19 on: Nov 30, 2017, 03:33PM »

Sorry I fell off the planet for a while here.  Missed a bunch of discussion here...

I've been using an SO-7 on tenor since 2011; as @eggerinstruments said, it's copied from the mouthpiece associated with the Verona instrument.  It took me a while to really be able to control it, and it's not as "stable" as many other models on the market - but the sound really has something special enough that over the past couple of years, I've also gone to using mouthpieces based on the same principles on both bass and alto.  To be honest, if you're playing tenor trombone and are really serious about trying working with a historical setup, start with an SO-7, spend the time and effort to learn what playing it can teach you, and then branch out from there.

I say this as someone who also makes mouthpieces, by the way.  The SO-7 is the only trombone bmouthpiece I play regularly anymore which I didn't make myself.

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