Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1096560 Posts in 72524 Topics- by 19537 Members - Latest Member: philthomas
Jump to:  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Artisan Bach Trombones  (Read 2726 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
ChisTruBoreShires
*
Offline Offline

Location: Parkersburg, West Virginia
Joined: Mar 1, 2014
Posts: 17

View Profile
« on: Mar 01, 2015, 09:25PM »

I've been hearing that these horns are just as good, and in some cases better than the full on Greenhoe trombones, and Mt.Vernon era horns. Is there truth to this statement? I'm itching to try one of these horns!
Logged
Sliphorn
Pedal Pusher

*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Oct 18, 2006
Posts: 2380
"Tenor & Bass, Jazz & Classical"


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: Mar 01, 2015, 09:37PM »

I'd also like to know what people who have played them have to say.

What are the supposed differences?  I've heard of ball bearings in the valve...that's about it.
Logged

MrPillow
Organologique et plus!

*
Offline Offline

Location: Newport, RI
Joined: Jan 14, 2008
Posts: 1599

View Profile
« Reply #2 on: Mar 01, 2015, 09:51PM »

I have tried a few at various locations and while they tended to seem slightly better constructed than the the run of the mill 42's that most places stock, the playing experience didn't seem vastly improved. They were good certainly, but not thousands of dollars above a good regular 42. Anyone having better luck with these?
Logged

King 3B/F Silversonic - King 608F - Holton Paul Whiteman Model
ChisTruBoreShires
*
Offline Offline

Location: Parkersburg, West Virginia
Joined: Mar 1, 2014
Posts: 17

View Profile
« Reply #3 on: Mar 01, 2015, 09:59PM »

I was afraid of that. Don't get me wrong, every maker of horns put out fantastic instruments, and you get a few not so good ones into the mix of things, but if I put $5000 into a trombone, I expect it to play like one. I would still like to play as many combinations as possible and make some comparisons.
Logged
Cubes
*
Offline Offline

Location: San Diego, Ca
Joined: Oct 15, 2012
Posts: 973

View Profile
« Reply #4 on: Mar 01, 2015, 11:42PM »

At TMEA I played on their Bachs that they brought with them. Honestly I liked the standard Bach 42BO they had there more than the Artisan trombones

Don't take this the wrong way, the Artisan horns played good and were solid horns, I just wouldn't recommend them as a first option for a brand new custom horn
Logged

United States Marine Corps
Holton TR-182 - Minick V
Getzen Custom 3047AFR - Griego CS 5
Olds Super - Griego 7C
Yamaha YSL-354 - Gold MV 11
Benge 6X Trumpet- Severinson 7C
Matt K

*
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: May 6, 2010
Posts: 7392

View Profile
« Reply #5 on: Mar 02, 2015, 03:00AM »

They're good, but if I'm spending that much on a horn, I'm going to go to one of the 'botique' guys and get fitted, personally.  Or if I want a "Bach" style horn and no other options, a few hundred more for the Alessi or a few hundred less for the Getzen Bach they made.
Logged

What's in a name? that which we call a tenor-bass posaune
By any other name would smell as sweet;
bubbachet

*
Offline Offline

Location: Wisconsin
Joined: Dec 1, 2013
Posts: 773

View Profile
« Reply #6 on: Mar 02, 2015, 10:23AM »

Played on a La Rosa horn at my local shop a few months ago. Felt like a good 42, but nothing spectacular. The rotor side of the horn was remarkably open, but the horn as a whole wasn't something to write home about. If I were to spend that much, I'd go Edwards or Shires (or, as someone mentioned the Getzen 4047).
Logged

"Conn 88H" - SL4747 Slide, Rath-built Rotax section, Bernd Sandner Rose Bell w/ Nickel Kranz
bonearzt

*
Offline Offline

Location: Denton-Dallas/Ft.Worth TX
Joined: Oct 23, 2004
Posts: 4145
"UTEP Alumni/Legend in my own mind!"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #7 on: Mar 02, 2015, 10:39AM »

Didn't the Artisan Bachs start as the Infinity?  I vaguely remember something like that.

I tried a prototype several years ago and while it was OK,  it was missing that "something" that makes a Bach.
I think at the time,  they were trying to market it as a "42 Infinity or Artisan" something like that, but I think that's where they are making a mistake.
Along with monkeying with the standard Bach 42 sound!

I wish they would leave the standard 36/42/50 alone & concentrate on the correct assembly.
Yes,  offer the Infinity or Hagmann or whatever valves ,but concentrate on what made Bach great to begin with!!


Eric
Logged

Eric, Leandra, Sara, Jared & Lily
Edwards
"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price has faded!"
"If you're doing something a certain way ONLY because it's always been done that way,  you're probably doing it wrong!"
AntonioPatrick

*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Oct 29, 2013
Posts: 376

View Profile
« Reply #8 on: Mar 02, 2015, 10:58AM »

Didn't the Artisan Bachs start as the Infinity?  I vaguely remember something like that.

I tried a prototype several years ago and while it was OK,  it was missing that "something" that makes a Bach.
I think at the time,  they were trying to market it as a "42 Infinity or Artisan" something like that, but I think that's where they are making a mistake.
Along with monkeying with the standard Bach 42 sound!

I wish they would leave the standard 36/42/50 alone & concentrate on the correct assembly.
Yes,  offer the Infinity or Hagmann or whatever valves ,but concentrate on what made Bach great to begin with!!


Eric

Agree Good!
Logged

-BM Trombone Performance Major
St. Olaf College '17
-MM Trombone Performance
University of Washington '19
TromboneMonkey

*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Aug 16, 2009
Posts: 2401

View Profile
« Reply #9 on: Mar 02, 2015, 11:33AM »

Didn't the Artisan Bachs start as the Infinity?  I vaguely remember something like that.

I tried a prototype several years ago and while it was OK,  it was missing that "something" that makes a Bach.
I think at the time,  they were trying to market it as a "42 Infinity or Artisan" something like that, but I think that's where they are making a mistake.
Along with monkeying with the standard Bach 42 sound!

I wish they would leave the standard 36/42/50 alone & concentrate on the correct assembly.
Yes,  offer the Infinity or Hagmann or whatever valves ,but concentrate on what made Bach great to begin with!!


Eric


I recall my high school physics class.  We had to build a tower of balsa that would support as much weight as possible-- everyone was building these giant octagonal designs with trusses and whatnot... there was one student who sat in the back with fine sandpaper making sure that each joint was perfectly level before gluing, and then sanded off the extra glue before moving on.  His process was so detailed that his design necessarily had to be very simple and devoid of bells-and whistles. 

His tower ended up bearing more weight than any two of the others combined. 

Form IS function. 

I tried an artisan horn and the valve would barely move.  The joints looked fine to the eye but the horn didn't resonate when I blew it like my old 36.  Like you said, get what made Bach great to begin with, which was the attention to detail!
Logged

-John
bonesmarsh
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: May 22, 2007
Posts: 2273

View Profile
« Reply #10 on: Mar 02, 2015, 12:13PM »

Trombonemonkey,

Your Artisan experience is the same as my own--exactly. I did oil the valve as much as possible as it was on the wall at a retail store, but it did little to improve the feel and blow.

To my feel, after playing Bach horns for about 35 years-- the large Artisan tenor played like a bad Bach 50B. Heavy. Unresponsive. Only one sound color in it.

Of course-- if you are looking for "that" sound then it would be the perfect horn for you.

It reminded me of the worst of Yamaha Xeno horns and the worst of bad Bach trombones combined-- two wrongs attempting to make a right. However, I'm a huge fan of old Conns and Raths...so there is the problem in that statement.

I DID eagerly buy an Artisan 6 1/2A small shank mouthpiece that played like crap in all of the modern small bore horns in the store-- but was fantastic in every one of my Olds trombones that ranged from 1948 to 1978. Not a surprise there---- vintage mouthpiece design was a real winner in a vintage horn!
Logged
bigbassbone1

*
Offline Offline

Location: Los Angeles, CA
Joined: Sep 7, 2012
Posts: 1019

View Profile
« Reply #11 on: Mar 02, 2015, 01:08PM »

Bach is very popular here in Australia. Most students and pros in the symphonies play Bach trombones.
When the Artisan ones came out heaps of the high level students sold their current 42's and bought them. To be honest i think most of them sounded better as a result they seem to me to be really great horns. One of my colleagues plays one and sounds amazing on it. Its currently in the shop for repairs so he is using a 42A and of course because he is awesome it doesn't sound bad at all but its definitely better with his Artisan.
A friend of mine sold his Edwards to buy one. He said it was more responsive and just gave a consistently better sound.
Everyone i have met here who has one has been impressed.
Logged
Sliphorn
Pedal Pusher

*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Oct 18, 2006
Posts: 2380
"Tenor & Bass, Jazz & Classical"


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: Mar 02, 2015, 01:21PM »

Bach is very popular here in Australia. Most students and pros in the symphonies play Bach trombones.
When the Artisan ones came out heaps of the high level students sold their current 42's and bought them. To be honest i think most of them sounded better as a result they seem to me to be really great horns. One of my colleagues plays one and sounds amazing on it. Its currently in the shop for repairs so he is using a 42A and of course because he is awesome it doesn't sound bad at all but its definitely better with his Artisan.
A friend of mine sold his Edwards to buy one. He said it was more responsive and just gave a consistently better sound.
Everyone i have met here who has one has been impressed.
Good to hear a positive viewpoint, too.  I'm eager to try them out, since I never have.
Logged

TBigdaddy

*
Offline Offline

Location: Kiev, Ukraine
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
Posts: 494

View Profile
« Reply #13 on: Mar 02, 2015, 03:53PM »

Bach is very popular here in Australia. Most students and pros in the symphonies play Bach trombones.
When the Artisan ones came out heaps of the high level students sold their current 42's and bought them. To be honest i think most of them sounded better as a result they seem to me to be really great horns. One of my colleagues plays one and sounds amazing on it. Its currently in the shop for repairs so he is using a 42A and of course because he is awesome it doesn't sound bad at all but its definitely better with his Artisan.
A friend of mine sold his Edwards to buy one. He said it was more responsive and just gave a consistently better sound.
Everyone i have met here who has one has been impressed.

 Idea! Maybe it's because you are in the Southern Hemisphere?   Evil :D :D
Logged
bigbassbone1

*
Offline Offline

Location: Los Angeles, CA
Joined: Sep 7, 2012
Posts: 1019

View Profile
« Reply #14 on: Mar 02, 2015, 04:25PM »

you're just jealous  Evil
Logged
Whitbey
*
Offline Offline

Location: Rochester MI USA
Joined: Apr 14, 2000
Posts: 975

View Profile WWW
« Reply #15 on: Mar 02, 2015, 07:47PM »

I have a Bach Corporation bell 50. Back in the late 70's a solder joint let go. I had just met the tech I am still using. He reassembled the horn and it was so much better I thought I got better because I had not played for days. It was a good horn. Now it is a great horn!

I think all the different models now are just an effort to improve quality in house. Problem is you don't know how to pick the good horn if a artisan model and a regular model play the same.  Seems Bach does not know what horn is the best either. 

If I had to do over, I would go Edwards. Or wait for the UFO to bring back Greenhoe.
Logged

See my profile for my horns. To long to put on each post.
Pages: [1]   Go Up
Print
Jump to: