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The Trombone ForumPractice BreakChit-Chat(Moderators: bhcordova, RedHotMama, BFW) SOMEBODY BLEW UP MY TOWN!
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evan51
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« Reply #140 on: Sep 22, 2001, 01:43AM »

quote:
Originally posted by Pat V:
Oh, so that's what it is!

Indeed, Pat:
At various times in the last 100 years the English have prohibited the speaking of Welsh, kids were physically punished for using Welsh in school, all Welsh teachers were fired one day and replaced with English teachers, bars were closed on Sundays to prevent congregations of citizens, counties were annexed to England, histories were intentionally perverted, etc.,........the list goes on and on.

The reference to the Red Dragon honors the Welsh independence movement. (I reckon we've strayed from the topic here....sorry NYC friends).
Evan
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« Reply #141 on: Sep 22, 2001, 07:52AM »

You all are talking about not causing any more suffereing in Afgahnistan but would a strike actually do that?  Are you against a military operation against that country?Personally I think some kind of military action in Afgahnistan will not cause more suffering.  If the Taliban are desposed of by the US, and the old leaders reinstated after the UN takes over, I feel that alot of good will have been achieved.
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BGuttman
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« Reply #142 on: Sep 22, 2001, 08:23AM »

The problem is that all the Muslim states in the area have flaky governments at best.  If we go in and bomb Afghanistan without some kind of conclusive proof that Bin Laden was responsible for the air hijackings, the governments in the other Muslim states may fall, and the entire area could declare Jihad on the alliance (which includes Australia, Pat).  When that happens, suicide bombers will appear everywhere, since killing an infidel is a ticket to Paradise.  And I don't want to know what will happen when they crash a Qantas plane into the Sydney Opera House, or run a full oil tanker aground on the Great Barrier Reef.

I am very concerned that we could do something that we will regret seriously afterward.
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« Reply #143 on: Sep 22, 2001, 08:28AM »

Hmmm, yes.
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evan51
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« Reply #144 on: Sep 22, 2001, 09:24AM »

quote:
Originally posted by Pat V:
...and the old leaders reinstated after the UN takes over, .....

The "old leaders" have been killed or died fighting Russians, Pat. There was a King Daud, who held a loose power before the communists took over and the Russians invaded. Some actually recommend the previous royal family take over for awhile.....Last I heard King Daud was living it up on the Italian Riviera, not much interested in rejoining his kinsman.

There were "moderate," pro-western (relatively) factions within the former Mujahedin groups. One such leader was assassinated two weeks before the terrorist attacks on New York.

I think Afghans and Americans alike would like to send the Taliban packing. The devil lies in the details, though. I suspect all of the emerging Central Asian states would benefit from the modern equivalent of a "Marshall Plan." These states have been brutally occupied by the Russians, British and other powers for the last hundred years. They are generally por in natural resources---even water is scarce. We did it for the Nazis and the Japanese militarists----why not??
Evan
   
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« Reply #145 on: Sep 22, 2001, 12:00PM »

quote:
Originally posted by evan51:

Indeed, Pat:
At various times in the last 100 years the English have prohibited the speaking of Welsh, kids were physically punished for using Welsh in school, all Welsh teachers were fired one day and replaced with English teachers, bars were closed on Sundays to prevent congregations of citizens, counties were annexed to England, histories were intentionally perverted, etc.,........the list goes on and on.

Evan



Boy, that sure sounds like the history of the Acadians in the southern mississipi valley!(french) A lot of them got so fed up they headed for the east end of Canada. No country's got a perfect record on Human rights. The trick is to learn from our(and each other's) mistakes!
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« Reply #146 on: Sep 22, 2001, 10:05PM »

The problem with saying "We are only attacking the terrorists" is that there is no sure fire way to know who the terrorists are.  From the air, all Afghans look the same.

Michelle
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bhcordova
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« Reply #147 on: Sep 23, 2001, 01:23PM »

I just found this on the trombone-l mail list:

This piece is from a young man who is a first year violin
student at Juilliard..
*************

Playing for the Fighting 69th
by William ******

Monday, Sept. 17

Yesterday I had probably the most incredible and moving experience of
my life. Juilliard organized a quartet to go play at the Armory. The
Armory is a huge military building where families of people missing
from
Tuesday's disaster go to wait for news of their loved ones.
Entering the building was very difficult emotionally, because the
entire building (the size of a
city block) was covered with missing posters. Thousands of posters,
spread out up
to eight feet above the ground, each featuring a different, smiling,
face.

I made my way into the huge central room and found my Juilliard
buddies. For two hours we sight-read quartets (with only three
people!), and I
don't think I will soon forget the grief counselor from the Connecticut

State Police who listened the entire time, or the woman who listened
only to "Memory" from Cats, crying the whole time. At 7, the other two
players had to leave; they had been playing at the Armory since 1 and
simply couldn't play any more.

I volunteered to stay and play solo, since I had just got there. I soon

realized that the evening had just begun for me: a man in fatigues who
introduced himself as the Sergeant Major asked me if
I'd mind playing for his soldiers as they came back from digging
through the rubble at Ground
Zero. Masseuses had volunteered to give his men massages, he said, and
he didn't think anything would be more soothing than getting a massage
and listening to violin music at the same time. So at 9:00 p.m., I
headed up to the second floor as the first men were arriving. From then

until 11:30, I played everything I could do for memory: Bach B Minor
Partita, Tchaik. Concerto,
Dvorak Concerto, Paganini Caprices 1 and 17, Vivaldi Winter and Spring,

Theme from Schindler's List, Tchaik. Melodie, Meditation from Thais,
Amazing Grace, My Country 'Tis of Thee, Turkey in the Straw, Bile Them
Cabbages Down.

Never have I played for a more grateful audience. Somehow it didn't
matter that by the end, my intonation was shot and I had no bow
control. I
would have lost any competition I was playing in, but it didn't matter.

The men would come up the stairs in full gear, remove their helmets,
look
at me, and smile.

At 11:20, I was introduced to Col. Slack, head of the division. After
thanking me, he said to his friends, "Boy, today was the toughest day
yet. I made the mistake of going back into the pit,
and I'll never do that again." Eager to hear a first-hand account, I
asked, "What did you see?"
He stopped, swallowed hard, and said, "What you'd expect to see." The
Colonel stood there as I played a lengthy rendition of Amazing Grace
which he claimed was the best he'd ever heard.

By this time it was 11:30, and I didn't think I could play anymore. I
asked the Sergeant Major if it would be appropriate if I played the
National Anthem. He shouted above the chaos of the milling soldiers to
call
them to attention, and I played the National Anthem as the 300 men of
the
69th Division saluted an invisible flag.

After shaking a few hands and packing up, I was prepared to leave when
one of the privates accosted me and told me the Colonel wanted to see
me again. He took me down to the War Room, but we couldn't find the
Colonel, so he gave me a tour of the War Room. It turns out that the
division I played for is the Famous Fighting Sixty-Ninth, the most
decorated
division in the U.S. Army. He pointed out a letter from Abraham Lincoln

offering his condolences after the Battle of Antietam...the 69th
suffered the most casualties of any division at that historic battle.
Finally, we located the Colonel. After thanking me again, he presented
me with
the coin of the regiment. "We only give these to someone who's done
something special for the 69th," he
informed me. He called over the division's historian to tell me the
significance of all the symbols on the coin.

As I rode the taxi back to Juilliard...free, of course, since taxi
service is free in New York right now...I was numb. Not only was this
evening the proudest I've ever felt to be an American, it was my most
meaningful as a musician and a person as well. At Juilliard, kids are
hypercritical of
each other and very competitive. The teachers expect, and in most cases

get, technical perfection. But this wasn't about that. The soldiers
didn't care that I had so many memory slips I lost count. They didn't
care
that when I forgot how the second movement of the Tchaik. went, I had
to come up with my own insipid improvisation until I somehow (and I
still don't know how) got to a cadence. I've never seen a more
appreciative
audience, and I've never understood so fully what it means to
communicate music
to other people.

And how did it change me as a person? Let's just say that, next time I
want to get into a petty argument about whether Richter or Horowitz was

better, I'll remember that when I asked the Colonel to describe the pit

formed by the tumbling of the Towers, he couldn't. Words only go
so far, and even music can only go a little further from there.

Your friend,
William

_________________________________________________ _
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/
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« Reply #148 on: Oct 07, 2001, 05:52PM »

Hi

My condolances to all members who have lost friends and family in the WTC terrorist attack.

One thing that annoys me by is President George Bush's heavy handedness. He may be leading a war against terrorism, but he is condemning the innocent lives of Albanians. I dont care how much he says they are only taking out military targets, innocent lives will still be lost. We are being fed propaganda from both sides of this war, and at the moment i dont know who to believe. All i know is, i thought the old ideal of "an eye for an eye" was gone. Had President Bush talked to the Talaban for maybe a few more months, i am sure a compromise could have been reached. I may be an outsider to all this, having lost no-one, but George Bush is not leading a war against terrorism, but a war of revenge. It is for this reason i do not support this war, and am staunchly against it.

Again, my candloances to everyone who has lost friends and family memebers in the act of terrorism on the WTC.

Nathan
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Nathan

ncfenech(at)it.uts.edu.au
Daniel

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« Reply #149 on: Oct 07, 2001, 06:35PM »

I agree, Nathan.  Surveys have shown that 90% of America supports the attacks - I am still trying to figure out where those 90% are...  No one I've talked too supports the U.S. launching bombs or any other military action...
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BGuttman
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« Reply #150 on: Oct 07, 2001, 06:55PM »

Daiel, I guess it's us Trombonists who are the agnostics here.  I certainly don't think the attacks that were made will do any good, either.

About the only outcome I can forsee is that the terrorist cells in the US will be activated, and we will see some car bombings in large cities.  I don't think they will be able to create airplane bombs again, and they won't be able to commandeer a crop duster to contaminate a water supply.  Still, the result will be reminiscent of "death from a thousand cuts".

We should have taken a cue from the Israelis and done a covert action to take out a couple of Al Qaida "heavies" and see if that can get the Mullahs in Afghanistan to realize that they might be next.

I guess in a few hours we will see the "baby milk factory" uniforms on TV reports from Afghanistan.  They fool nobody but other disaffected Arabs (who still believe the Israelis hijacked the planes and crashed them into the WTC towers).

Arggh!!!  
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evan51
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« Reply #151 on: Oct 07, 2001, 07:51PM »

Hi guys:
I think Bush is handling things right for now. He seems to be paying attention to the local politics and not trying to dictate to the Afghans opposed to the Taliban. Americans actually seem to be considering the long term effects of actions. If Bin Laden's purpose is to create insecurity in the U.S., the "retaliation" concerns are irrelevant---his groups will continue their efforts unless stopped.

As far as adopting Israeli strategies---they have been an utter catastrophe and assure a continued supply of new martyrs. Besides, the Israelois simply have to assasinate their neighbors. It is not so easy to pick off folks at a distance, especially if they don't care.

So long,
Evan
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