Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1080509 Posts in 71509 Topics- by 19055 Members - Latest Member: MOS3
Jump to:  
The Trombone ForumTeaching & LearningComposition, Arranging and Theory(Moderator: zemry) Is the rimsky korsakov trombone concerto still under copyright?
Pages: [1]   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Is the rimsky korsakov trombone concerto still under copyright?  (Read 1668 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Tankattack

*
Offline Offline

Location: Gastonia North Carolina
Joined: Jul 28, 2013
Posts: 92

View Profile
« on: Apr 15, 2015, 11:54AM »

title says it all. I want to arrange it for a concert band, just to try my hand at arranging, and was wondering if I could legally upload it publicly if I finish the project.
Logged
robcat2075

*
Offline Offline

Location: Dallas, Texas
Joined: Apr 19, 2009
Posts: 5921

View Profile
« Reply #1 on: Apr 15, 2015, 12:02PM »

IT is PD and it is already arranged for band.  That was the original setting.
Logged

Robert Holmén

Hear me as I Play My Horn


Get your Popper, Dotzauer, or Kummer play-alongs!
robcat2075

*
Offline Offline

Location: Dallas, Texas
Joined: Apr 19, 2009
Posts: 5921

View Profile
« Reply #2 on: Apr 15, 2015, 12:06PM »

It is possible that someone's modern edition of that concerto, with their very thoughtful changes, is still under copyright but the original N R-K version is as PD as it gets.
Logged

Robert Holmén

Hear me as I Play My Horn


Get your Popper, Dotzauer, or Kummer play-alongs!
Eastcheap

*
Offline Offline

Location: Somewhere between Dallas and Tyler
Joined: Apr 9, 2010
Posts: 1569
"It's the only song I know."


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: Apr 15, 2015, 08:15PM »

R-K died in 1908, so his works are well PD (even in Mexico :)).  A possible exception in the US might be works that went unpublished until relatively recently, but that's not the case here.

It is possible that someone's modern edition of that concerto, with their very thoughtful changes, is still under copyright

You have to watch music publishers, though.  They've had something of a reputation for slapping new and unenforceable copyrights on old material.

Quote

Remarkably, the Russian edition on IMSLP (КОНЦЕРТ ДЛЯ ТРОМБОНА С ДУХОВЫМ ОРКЕСТРОМ) even has a bass-clef solo part (don't worry, Trombone I is still alto for no particularly good reason). :D
Logged
robcat2075

*
Offline Offline

Location: Dallas, Texas
Joined: Apr 19, 2009
Posts: 5921

View Profile
« Reply #4 on: Apr 15, 2015, 09:09PM »

IMSLP says it's PD and that's good enough for me.  :D

I think these are the relevant factors...

-On Rimsky-Korsakov's death in 1908 Tsarist Russia, copyright was "life plus 50 years". That would give it until 1958 for Russian copyright but not US copyright.

-from 1928  the Soviet copyright term was "life plus 15" retrofitted to all previous copyrights.  That would end copyright at 1923

-This work was first published in the Soviet Union (or anywhere else) in 1950 but it was already Soviet PD then on the basis of "life plus 15"

-Current US law re-establishes copyright for foreign works that had been regarded as PD here only IF they were not PD in their home country in 1996


Given all of the above I'm going to say that by Soviet and Russian Law the work had passed into PD in 1923, well before 1996 so it is PD here now.



None-the-less certain US editions, like the ones that changed it to transpose some parts up an octave, may still claim copyright on theri versions.



BTW, I found out Russia had its own version of the Disney Protection Act. In the 19th Century copyright was extended from "life plus 25" to "life plus 50" mainly because Pushkin's widow requested it.







Logged

Robert Holmén

Hear me as I Play My Horn


Get your Popper, Dotzauer, or Kummer play-alongs!
Eastcheap

*
Offline Offline

Location: Somewhere between Dallas and Tyler
Joined: Apr 9, 2010
Posts: 1569
"It's the only song I know."


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: Apr 15, 2015, 10:02PM »

IMSLP says it's PD and that's good enough for me.  :D

Agreed.

Quote
None-the-less certain US editions, like the ones that changed it to transpose some parts up an octave, may still claim copyright on theri versions.

"Claim" is the operative word.  AFAIK, nobody knows quite where the "originality" threshold is for sheet music.  AFAIK, hardly anybody's tried testing it.

I have a whole book full of Scott Joplin photocopies that claims 1971 and 1981 copyrights.  I'm reasonably certain they only apply to the front cover and editor's notes, but the publisher sure didn't go to any great lengths to clarify that. :D
Logged
fsung
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Oct 3, 2007
Posts: 373

View Profile
« Reply #6 on: Apr 16, 2015, 05:10AM »

I have a whole book full of Scott Joplin photocopies that claims 1971 and 1981 copyrights.  I'm reasonably certain they only apply to the front cover and editor's notes, but the publisher sure didn't go to any great lengths to clarify that. :D

It's a little more complicated than that.

In addition to the front cover and editors notes, the collection of songs as a collection, the back cover, spine, and any front and matter (title page(s), ToC, list of tables/figures, preface, intro, acknowledgements, the © page itself, appendices/addenda, glossary, bibliography, indices, etc) is copyrighted as well. In some circumstances, the presentation (physical page layout and order in which the songs appear) are copyrightable as well.  :-0
Logged
Mark LaFratta
*
Offline Offline

Location: Richmond, VA
Joined: Feb 19, 2008
Posts: 119

View Profile
« Reply #7 on: Apr 16, 2015, 05:19AM »

There is an excellent chart for helping with this analysis from the Cornell law school. it can be found at this web address. https://copyright.cornell.edu/resources/publicdomain.cfm
Anything first "published" (and that could be printed or performed) prior to 1923 is in the public domain. Works first created or first published after 1923 get more complicated but the Cornell chart is a very good summary of the applicable law.
MJL
Logged

Mark J. La Fratta
Shires alto red brass bell nickel slide wBb rotor; Shires Sauer Model; Conn 62H Bass; Conn 12H Coprion; Markus Leuchter Eb Alto Sackbut, Boehm & Meinl Bb sackbut
Pages: [1]   Go Up
Print
Jump to: