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Author Topic: Christian Matters  (Read 6795 times)
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drizabone
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« on: Aug 08, 2015, 03:38PM »

a thread where Christians can politely discuss matters relating to the various strands of christian understanding.
« Last Edit: Aug 08, 2015, 11:22PM by drizabone » Logged
John the Theologian
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« Reply #1 on: Aug 09, 2015, 06:35PM »

a thread where Christians can politely discuss matters relating to the various strands of christian understanding.

Martin, what topic did you have in mind to start off our discussion?
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Ellrod

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« Reply #2 on: Aug 09, 2015, 06:37PM »

Why discuss matters pertaining to Christianity on a web forum for trombones?
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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #3 on: Aug 09, 2015, 06:43PM »

Why discuss matters pertaining to Christianity on a web forum for trombones?

The Chit-Chat section is described as follows in the forum menu:
Lively discussions on topics which don't fit into any of the above categories; not necessarily related to music OR the trombone! New members, please introduce yourselves here.
 
Don't feel bad--a lot of people seem to be confused on that ... oddly repeatedly in some cases.
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drizabone
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« Reply #4 on: Aug 09, 2015, 08:26PM »

Martin, what topic did you have in mind to start off our discussion?

Maybe something on "How to winsomely engage your local atheists in a friendly discussion"
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Ellrod

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« Reply #5 on: Aug 09, 2015, 08:36PM »

But don't we already have plenty of threads such as "Religion Matters", "Gay Marriage", and "Guns"?
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Lawrie

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« Reply #6 on: Aug 09, 2015, 09:03PM »

But don't we already have plenty of threads such as "Religion Matters", "Gay Marriage", and "Guns"?
So?   Don't know
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drizabone
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« Reply #7 on: Aug 09, 2015, 09:07PM »

But don't we already have plenty of threads such as "Religion Matters", "Gay Marriage", and "Guns"?
"Religion Matters" : not any more
"Gay Marriage" : Gay marriage is about the Government affirming people's relationships not religion.
"Guns" : Gun's are about shooting things, not religion.

What's the problem? its not as though we're contributing to Global Warming or using up the universe's limited supply of unreplaceable threads.

But what would you like to know about Christianity or Jesus?


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BassCase

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« Reply #8 on: Aug 09, 2015, 10:40PM »

"Religion Matters" : not any more
"Gay Marriage" : Gay marriage is about the Government affirming people's relationships not religion.
"Guns" : Gun's are about shooting things, not religion.

What's the problem? its not as though we're contributing to Global Warming or using up the universe's limited supply of unreplaceable threads.

But what would you like to know about Christianity or Jesus?



I can see the trolls lining up.  Best of luck..........! 
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drizabone
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« Reply #9 on: Aug 10, 2015, 12:21AM »

I can see the trolls lining up.  Best of luck..........! 

thanks mate.  I'll have to think of something to discuss
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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #10 on: Aug 10, 2015, 05:20AM »

But don't we already have plenty of threads such as "Religion Matters", "Gay Marriage", and "Guns"?

This is meant to be a less critical or contentious topic though--critical in terms of criticism, but hopefully not in terms of the quality of consideration or rigor ... when such things are in play anyway.
 
Also it appears that on OTF, at least for the time being, topics more generally/openly about religion that are critical in that they don't treat religion (or a particular religion) with kid gloves, are verboten (functionally if not actually by written policy).
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« Reply #11 on: Aug 10, 2015, 06:03AM »

Rather than get into the whole meta discussion mess again, how about proceed with religious topics as normal? Just create a topic when you have something to discuss, and discuss that topic there? The one long rambling thread concept has been a mess from the get go and largely served to troll. So when you have something to say, by all means say it. But if you don't, there's no need to say anything, and no need of a place to say nothing anyway.
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« Reply #12 on: Aug 10, 2015, 07:02AM »

Here is an old article that has some relevance.

http://www.stripes.com/news/online-christian-soldiers-1.80024

At the time I was an active participant in those forums, and know the people mentioned quite well.

AKO forums have since disappeared in entirety, and as far as I know you can't find anything archived.  That's too bad, there was one thread I would have liked to have downloaded, we put a lot of work into some Old Testament analysis. 
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Tim Richardson
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« Reply #13 on: Aug 10, 2015, 08:11AM »

Just create a topic when you have something to discuss, and discuss that topic there?

I have a natural sympathy with this point. Keeping things neatly categorised is usually a good idea for clarity of thought. However, in this particular case, it's proven valuable over time to have a general topic into which free-associating conversation can be put. I've personally got a lot more out of that thread and its predecessor over the years than I feel that I would have got out of a series of specific topic headings. I wonder impishly if we might profitably consider inaugurating a similar thread on political positions...

The one long rambling thread concept has been a mess from the get go and largely served to troll.

But this is how it was brought low, and you well know how it was done. While it (and in that I include the predecessor thread as a continuous strand of debate) from the start had a propensity to be a bit edgy, it was never a trollfest. Until... well, how do I say this politely? Until you and ronkny decided that you wanted to troll it off the face of TTF for whatever personal reasons applied and were willing to devote years of your lives to doing so. None of your usual whataboutery regarding how Byron posts, please - even if I were to go so far as to accept your thesis that he's a naughty boy too, two wrongs famously do not make a right. Incidentally, touching on our previous conversation, there's an interesting inversion of our positions as you characterise them right there - you maintaining a relative moral stance, and me maintaining an absolute one.

Having noted my distaste at this piece of revisionism, I'd also like to place on record that I thought that we had lately turned matters around substantially. Sure, there was still snark, but it was an ingredient rather than the main dish, and I at least was getting things out of our recent conversations there, so abruptly terminated. The timing of the thread deletion is very peculiar.
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Dave Taylor

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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #14 on: Aug 10, 2015, 08:39AM »

Here is an old article that has some relevance.
 
http://www.stripes.com/news/online-christian-soldiers-1.80024
 
At the time I was an active participant in those forums, and know the people mentioned quite well.
 
AKO forums have since disappeared in entirety, and as far as I know you can't find anything archived.  That's too bad, there was one thread I would have liked to have downloaded, we put a lot of work into some Old Testament analysis.

Seems kinda like the one entrusted with its safekeeping burning a one-off book of collected contributions from all sorts of authors.
 
I can't fathom doing something so ... unilaterally like that.
 
Good article! Had no idea such a forum existed. Were vets allowed?
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- Feeding a troll just gives it a platform and amplifies its voice.
 
- Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves.  - Richard Feynman
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« Reply #15 on: Aug 10, 2015, 09:04AM »



 
Good article! Had no idea such a forum existed. Were vets allowed?

You had to have an account on AKO.  If you weren't working or somehow connected, there were ways to be sponsored, I think. 

My take on it, and this is pure speculation not having ever discussed it, is that the military realized the drive of the younger members for social media and decided to provide a way to do it from government computers which were subject to security regulations.  That produced AKO forums which were a great opportunity or a great time waster, depending on your point of view.  Since then AKO has dropped the forums section, and probably time and fashion had overtaken it. 

There was a long running thread called Read Da Book.  It was started by one of the resident outspoken atheists whose premise was that most of the Christians on the forum had never read the Bible themselves.  So we started at Genesis and each of us took one chapter, paraphrased it as reverently or irreverently as he pleased, asked a set of study questions, and then the group discussed.  We made it much of the way through the OT (lots of surprises - you would be amazed at the number of times somebody gets killed in one chapter, then again in the next, and is alive later to father some children.)  Some of the theologic points were interesting and in hindsight I wish I'd copied it.  We had a mix of fundagelic Christians, liberal Christians, atheists, and pagans. 
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Tim Richardson
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« Reply #16 on: Aug 10, 2015, 09:22AM »

I wonder impishly if we might profitably consider inaugurating a similar thread on political positions...
Per Billy, that thread is locked, and so is any thread that starts similar.

Quote
But this is how it was brought low, and you well know how it was done. While it (and in that I include the predecessor thread as a continuous strand of debate) from the start had a propensity to be a bit edgy, it was never a trollfest. Until... well, how do I say this politely? Until you and ronkny decided that you wanted to troll it off the face of TTF for whatever personal reasons applied and were willing to devote years of your lives to doing so.
It was a troll fest well become I came around, and no, we were far from the only ones.

Seriously guys, Billy already issued that the other thread should not be resurrected. The rest of the forum works well on a topic/thread. Maybe give the old nonsense a break and try a new tactic before Billy locks this as well.
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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #17 on: Aug 10, 2015, 09:37AM »

There was a long running thread called Read Da Book.  It was started by one of the resident outspoken atheists whose premise was that most of the Christians on the forum had never read the Bible themselves.  So we started at Genesis and each of us took one chapter, paraphrased it as reverently or irreverently as he pleased, asked a set of study questions, and then the group discussed.  We made it much of the way through the OT (lots of surprises - you would be amazed at the number of times somebody gets killed in one chapter, then again in the next, and is alive later to father some children.)  Some of the theologic points were interesting and in hindsight I wish I'd copied it.  We had a mix of fundagelic Christians, liberal Christians, atheists, and pagans.

Too cool man.
 
I'd expect that premise to be confirmed if tested, but that's to be expected of a society's default view, regardless (maybe not so in a N Korean equivalency though). I don't think I'd be interested in posting  summary in that kind of topic (maybe), but I'm sure many of them, from all sides, were very interesting. It may be way too ambitious/pie-in-the-sky, but I'd like to see something like that kinda thing happen here too (not necessarily here in this topic--that would be cool too--but I mean just here in this international community that is the OTF). Have you read Steven Pinker's summary of the Old Testament in the intro to The Better Angels of Our Nature? I'd be interested in your take on it.
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- Feeding a troll just gives it a platform and amplifies its voice.
 
- Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves.  - Richard Feynman
- He who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool.   - Confucius
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« Reply #18 on: Aug 10, 2015, 09:48AM »

It would be kind of cool to do the same, no?

No need to do it on TTF, I suppose, if TTF is getting chary of religion talk. Though it would be a real shame to lose the inclusiveness of it.
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Dave Taylor

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« Reply #19 on: Aug 10, 2015, 10:04AM »

Someone mentioned Arianism awhile back. Their heresy was to take the "Jesus is true man thesis" too far. They pushed the limits of an essential Christian topic CHRISTOLOGY.

I think a good topic would be "how do you as a Christian sort this out?"
 In your personal theology how does "True man and true God" work for you?. If you run the clock of Jesus, true man, backwards from John and the Jordan you eventually get to one cell and then one sperm and one ova. So where does that leave "the immaculate conception"? Where does The Christ enter the picture? On the wings of a dove at the Jordan or as a preexisting person of the Trinity or both and together? If Jesus is " true man" did he have a sinful nature?

I think there's plenty to go on here for a Christian dialogue, especially if we keep it to sharing what works for us in daily practice. As for nonchristians I think Christology, The Trinity etc are often stumbling blocks keeping them from seeing Christianity as a viable spiritual practice.

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