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Author Topic: Christian Matters  (Read 6291 times)
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ronkny

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« Reply #60 on: Aug 12, 2015, 05:41PM »


   
Christian Matters
« on: Aug 08, 2015, 03:38PM »
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a thread where Christians can politely discuss matters relating to the various strands of christian understanding.
« Last Edit: Aug 08, 2015, 11:22PM by drizabone »
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« Reply #61 on: Aug 13, 2015, 09:06AM »

This article speaks to a greater reality in the Christian landscape of our culture.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/susan-m-shaw/mean-christians-in-the-di_b_7965676.html?ir=Religion%3Fncid%3Dnewsltushpmg00000003&ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000051

Before you discount the article because it comes from the Huff Post consider these words from the author.

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I spent five and a half years in a Baptist seminary discussing all kinds of biblical, theological and ethical issues. Usually the discussions were heated but respectful--although one time a fellow student did shout at me that I needed to get out of Christianity because of a theological question I raised (and I did witness the ugly side of disagreement as I watched the Southern Baptist Convention fracture, but that's another blog for another day). On the whole, however, at the seminary I learned processes of lively theological discussion and disagreement, and these were the processes I hoped to engage through social media.

I'm sure some of you digital natives and longtime users of social media are already chuckling at my naiveté. In only a few weeks I've been shocked at the rude comments, name-calling and insults that are posted as responses to the arguments and evidence that are offered to encourage critical thinking and different perspectives. What's most surprising--and disappointing--is how many of those insults come from people who identify as Christian. One person said that as someone who went to a Baptist seminary I should "know better" and asked, "What happened to you?" as if only some horrible trauma could have led me to make the arguments I did.

I've noticed a disturbing pattern of some commenters attacking the writer rather than engaging the ideas. Certainly, a great deal of scholarship has noted how the anonymity of the internet seems to encourage people to behave badly toward others in ways they likely would not in person. And what we witness in the media among politicians is often more "gotcha" than any real willingness to delve deeply into authentic conversations over points of disagreement.

What baffles me most is how some Christians participate in online meanness and incivility. I'm not sure how people whose identifying characteristic is supposed to be love justify treating others with contempt because they disagree with them (Granted, church history is dotted all along the way with mean Christians, but I keep hoping we'll learn to do better).

In my own writing, I do try to be provocative with ideas, but I do not want to target other people with insults and name-calling. In fact, when I teach other faculty members how to facilitate difficult conversations, I tell them that when someone makes an inappropriate or offensive comment they should take the spotlight off the person who made the comment and turn the group's attention to the comment itself so they can examine it without attacking the person who said it.

Personal attacks do not further analysis; rather they impede or shut down deliberation. Maybe that's the idea. Maybe those Christians who attack writers personally are simply trying to shut down the conversation rather than examine ideas that are different from their own.

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« Reply #62 on: Aug 13, 2015, 12:05PM »

You know, we see regular odd complaints about people wanting things better. The odd thing? They want change to happen but aren't willing to make it themselves. Maybe someone else can change. Maybe someone else can improve things. My point in saying it is worth an attempt to actually break away into a separate topic when you have something to discuss is an idea of change. Now... I fully understand people don't like change and are resistant to it. Even something as simple as attempting to focus on a specific area instead of rambling and trolling and such. But that said, if you aren't willing to change, then you can't reasonably expect whatever it is to do the changing for you.

So that said, PM et al, if you don't like it... there are a couple options: first, you can always take your own advice and not participate. Second, you can attempt to try a different approach then what has been routinely tried and failed for a decade. Or third, keep going the same ol same ol, fussing the same about the same old problems and wondering why they never improve and chances are they never will.
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« Reply #63 on: Aug 13, 2015, 02:23PM »

that's what PM said he'd do.

And I'm the one asking for change here.

I'd appreciate it if we could stick to discussing christian ideas and issues. One of which would be dealing with our own planks before we worry about other's splinters. Another would be how we could encourage each other to fill our conversations with grace (Col 4:6) so that all those uncouth atheists might actually listen to us when we tell them about the gospel.
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« Reply #64 on: Aug 13, 2015, 02:26PM »

... One of which would be dealing with our own planks before we worry about other's splinters. Another would be how we could encourage each other to fill our conversations with grace (Col 4:6) so that all those uncouth atheists might actually listen to us when we tell them about the gospel.


I'm up for this. I'm TDY at the moment, so basically checking in so I'll see new message alerts. I'll try to think of a topic in my down time.
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« Reply #65 on: Aug 13, 2015, 03:49PM »

that's what PM said he'd do.

And I'm the one asking for change here.

I'd appreciate it if we could stick to discussing christian ideas and issues. One of which would be dealing with our own planks before we worry about other's splinters. Another would be how we could encourage each other to fill our conversations with grace (Col 4:6) so that all those uncouth atheists might actually listen to us when we tell them about the gospel.

Wise counsel, indeed.   
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« Reply #66 on: Aug 14, 2015, 02:36AM »

Hear, hear.

[Takes my heathen posterior off back to lurk]
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Dave Taylor

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« Reply #67 on: Aug 14, 2015, 03:21AM »

that's what PM said he'd do. and I'm the one asking for change here.
It wasn't only directed at PM, though he was a recent case that went against what he said he would do even just by saying it.

So to you as well, how are you wanting change if you want to proceed down the same road as before?

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I'd appreciate it if we could stick to discussing christian ideas and issues. One of which would be dealing with our own planks before we worry about other's splinters. Another would be how we could encourage each other to fill our conversations with grace (Col 4:6) so that all those uncouth atheists might actually listen to us when we tell them about the gospel.
Speaking of discussing issues, those are fine for topics to lecture others about as is already being tried (and very much part of that old road), but is there anything even to discuss? Seems like there has yet to be a real topic.
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« Reply #68 on: Aug 14, 2015, 05:55AM »

Was Jesus the Son of God?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-d-tabor/was-jesus-the-son-of-god-_b_7976430.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

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« Reply #69 on: Aug 14, 2015, 06:13AM »

It wasn't only directed at PM, though he was a recent case that went against what he said he would do even just by saying it.

So to you as well, how are you wanting change if you want to proceed down the same road as before?
Speaking of discussing issues, those are fine for topics to lecture others about as is already being tried (and very much part of that old road), but is there anything even to discuss? Seems like there has yet to be a real topic.

Those are great topics to discuss, encouraging each other, rather than lecturing though.  I'm going through 1 Peter at the moment and that has a lot of challenging stuff to say on the issue.

How are we to proceed?  With gentleness and grace, taking the same attitude as Jesus, who suffered on the cross, the innocent for the guilty. The challenge for us is to be like-minded and be prepared to suffer.  Not that we're innocent of course.  And I don't want to sound as though I'm lecturing from a holier than thou angelic position. But we're asked to encourage each other to he holy, and that's what I'm trying to do and to encourage.

PS. I hadn't realised how much 1 Peter is like Paul.    
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« Reply #70 on: Aug 14, 2015, 09:48AM »

Those are great topics to discuss, encouraging each other, rather than lecturing though.  I'm going through 1 Peter at the moment and that has a lot of challenging stuff to say on the issue.

And I don't want to sound as though I'm lecturing from a holier than thou angelic position. But we're asked to encourage each other to he holy, and that's what I'm trying to do and to encourage.

With few few exceptions, it is almost impossible to tell others how much humility they should or should not have without in turn coming across as lecturing or condescending.
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« Reply #71 on: Aug 14, 2015, 10:16AM »


That's a good article, more in depth than I expected.

It does miss an idea or two, but it includes more of a description of what some people mean by the phrase. 
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« Reply #72 on: Aug 20, 2015, 09:13AM »

I think I lost the bubble.... where is the chapter by chapter discussion happening?
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« Reply #73 on: Aug 20, 2015, 12:43PM »

Did you really think that the chapter by chapter analysis would happen on this forum?
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« Reply #74 on: Aug 20, 2015, 02:14PM »

I think I lost the bubble.... where is the chapter by chapter discussion happening?

We're going to kick it off next week, and I expect that it will have its own thread.  Possible called Read da Book.  Dave posted on it in the Religion Matters thread.
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« Reply #75 on: Aug 21, 2015, 02:50PM »

Did you really think that the chapter by chapter analysis would happen on this forum?

Thanks for the helpful reply.
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As scarce as the truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand - Josh Billings (Henry Wheeler Shaw)
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« Reply #76 on: Aug 23, 2015, 10:03AM »

I'm back now!

Just launched the thread, which may be found here...
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