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Author Topic: My visit with Roy Lawler  (Read 16608 times)
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The Sheriff
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« on: Nov 14, 2015, 05:36PM »

------

Hey all,

I just spent a day and a half with Roy Lawler at his beautiful home and shop in Shelbyville (Flat Creek) TN. His new horns are superb; an entirely different design than his early ones.

His design is influenced by the Martin Committee, in fact he showed me the 1947 Committee bell that he used as a pattern for his mandrel. Couple that with Roy's expert knowledge and you have one heck of a small bore (.500) trombone. The new horns are screw bell with a nice variety of options. Stems are available in 70/30 brass in .020 or .022, also 85/15 in .022 or .025.

The flares are available in sizes from 7 1/2 to 8 inches and they have a flat bead that is soldered, though he will do unsoldered too. No rim wire. You can get .020, .022, and .025 in 70/30 brass, 85/15 brass comes either .022 or .025. He will also do a 90/10 brass in .025.

The stem/bell sections he had available for my visit were a .020 70/30 with 70/30 neck pipe, 70/30 tuning slide bow and tuning slide inners. A .022 70/30 with nickel neck pipe and nickel tuning slide inners and a 70/30 tuning slide bow. And a .025 85/15 with a nickel neck pipe, 70/30 tuning slide inners and a 85/15 tuning slide bow.

The three hand slides he had were an all nickel, a nickel with brass bow, and an all brass. The all nickel slide provided you with very fast articulations and fast fluid slurs with a lot of pop. The all brass was warmer, creamier, and slightly veiled. The nickel with brass bow fell right in the middle. Lovely slides with excellent action.They have a very cool water key that is a direct copy of the Committee's from the 40's. Nice!

I brought several leadpipes, a Kanstul S, H6, W6, and a Bach 12. Roy had some 2 piece pipes from his old design horns and 1 one piece pipe with a large .420 venturi.

My everyday pipe in my Kanstul 1606 is the Kanstul H6 so that is what I used for most of the play testing. Though I did use a nice, albeit tight, 2 piece pipe that he had. He is going to re-design the lead pipes and do them as one piece pipes with a variety of venturi sizes ranging from .396, .405, .410, .415, and .420. They will all be approximately 8 inches in length.

Ok, the horns. Well it took Thursday night and all of Friday for me to arrive at the sound/feel I wanted. Every combination I played made me want to play and play and play. There is no better endorsement for a horn than that. Does it make you want to play? Yup. These did, except for one combination, and frankly I don't remember what that combination was. Before I forget, my target was to find a horn that was between my glorious 1935 Williams "L" and my Kanstul 1606 prototype. Both are GREAT horns but the Kanstul blows very big and I have to be in absolute top shape to get the most from it, especially when fatigued. The Williams "L" blows rather tight for a .522 though it has the most glorious sound known to mankind.

Preconceptions can often be misconceptions, and for me that held true. I thought the .020 70/30 stem was gonna be it. But it wasn't. It was nice with an 7 7/8" 85/15 flare but not quite what I wanted. On to the .022 stem with nickel neck and tuning slide inners. Ah, better but still not quite there. Keep in mind this took a long time because I was switching slides, flares, leadpipes, and going to my Kanstul and Williams for comparison. Finally on Saturday after many hours of playing we took a break, walked his beautiful property, something to drink and then back to the shop.

I had avoided the .025 85/15 stem, nickel neck, 85/15 tuning bow because of my preconception/misconception. So......that stem with a 7 1/2" 85/15 .022 flare, all nickel hand slide with H6 lead pipe and.........WOW! It was smack dab in the middle but leaning towards the Williams "L". What? Is this possible? Ok Ok. Lemme try the 7 7/8" flare in the same material. Nice, but didn't get up to speed as quickly as the 7 1/2". Ok, now the 7/7/8" 70/30 flare in .022. Ah, smack dab in the middle again but leaning more towards my Kanstul without the overly big blow required to keep the Kanstul lit up. This is amazing stuff my friends! Whew, I'm tired. I was on the road for nine hours coming home from Roy's before writing this.

Roy's horns are really something else. They are beautifully crafted and designed. I ordered a .025 85/15 stem with nickel neck pipe, 85/15 tuning slide bow, a 7 1/2" 85/15 .022 flare, another one just like it in 7 7/8" and a 7/7/8" 70/30. And an all nickel hand slide. It's amazing what just changing a flare does to the sound of the horn. Really really cool stuff. It will also come with a flat case that holds 2 flares. Okay, going to bed.

You can see his stuff at www.roylawlertrombones.com

Thanks

=====
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Scott Bentall-Freelance
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« Reply #1 on: Nov 14, 2015, 05:50PM »


"Preconceptions can often be misconceptions"

Nicely put.
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« Reply #2 on: Nov 15, 2015, 06:07AM »

------

A couple of things I forgot to mention. These horns are very character filled, easy to blow, easy to play, and easy to color.

The other thing is that Roy has decided to use a date code for the serial number. The day the instrument is invoiced will be the serial number. So if it was invoiced today, the serial number would be 111515. I like that idea because it will make it very easy for future owners to know the build date.

=====
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Scott Bentall-Freelance
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Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
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« Reply #3 on: Nov 15, 2015, 06:36AM »

The other thing is that Roy has decided to use a date code for the serial number. The day the instrument is invoiced will be the serial number. So if it was invoiced today, the serial number would be 111515. I like that idea because it will make it very easy for future owners to know the build date.

I guess he never plans to sell more than one horn per day...?

Great writeup-- thanks for posting it.  Hi
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« Reply #4 on: Nov 15, 2015, 06:39AM »

I guess he never plans to sell more than one horn per day...?

Great writeup-- thanks for posting it.  Hi

=====

Good one!

Thanks

=====
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Scott Bentall-Freelance
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Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
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« Reply #5 on: Nov 15, 2015, 07:03AM »

Wouldn't be hard to add 111515 - 1 and 111515 - 2 or something to that effect to the cork barrel on the off chance something was sold on the same day.
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« Reply #6 on: Nov 15, 2015, 08:20AM »

Wow, those are beautiful instruments. That guy is only a 2 1/2 hour drive from me, but I never heard of him. And the price is no more than an off the shelf horn.

What is the lead time to get one of these?
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« Reply #7 on: Nov 15, 2015, 08:28AM »

Wouldn't be hard to add 111515 - 1 and 111515 - 2 or something to that effect to the cork barrel on the off chance something was sold on the same day.

After 30 years in the business, Mr. Lawler is making these one at a time. Can't see how he'd need MORE than one number per day :)
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« Reply #8 on: Nov 15, 2015, 01:13PM »

Wow, those are beautiful instruments. That guy is only a 2 1/2 hour drive from me, but I never heard of him. And the price is no more than an off the shelf horn.

What is the lead time to get one of these?
=====

Give him a call! I think lead time will be in the 6-8 week range. He makes trumpets too and they are his mainstay.

I had two of his earlier designs but over time ended up selling them. The 490 bore I had, which was the first one I got from him, I never should have sold. It was a sweet horn.

Roy's prices are very fair. It's just him doing the building and his wife does the books. Roy likes to keep it simple.

=====
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Scott Bentall-Freelance
No pressure=No sound=No gigs
---------------------------------------------
Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
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« Reply #9 on: Nov 15, 2015, 01:14PM »

After 30 years in the business, Mr. Lawler is making these one at a time. Can't see how he'd need MORE than one number per day :)

---

You are correct, sir!

---
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Scott Bentall-Freelance
No pressure=No sound=No gigs
---------------------------------------------
Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
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« Reply #10 on: Nov 15, 2015, 01:49PM »

-----

Oh yeah, more stuff. If you look at the pics of the tuning slide cross braces on the opening page of his website, you will notice the braces are soldered with a traditional "foot" attachment. He no longer does this. He now brazes the cross braces and it makes a significant difference.

He had me play one that was soldered and then play one that was brazed. The brazed one had a much quicker response and the sound was more immediate. It was very obvious.

The counter weight is built into the tuning slide sleeves. They are machined from brass bar stock, honed and fit. Good stuff! Balance is excellent too. I love the un-knurled nut that he uses for the connector of hand slide to bell section. You don't miss the knurling and it's easy to cinch or un-cinch, not to mention that it adds to the very clean look of these simple and elegant looking trombones.

-----
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1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
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« Reply #11 on: Nov 15, 2015, 03:19PM »

I like the serial number scheme, except there will be a Y2k+100 problem.  :)
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« Reply #12 on: Nov 15, 2015, 04:17PM »

=====

And yet again.............More stuff.

Roy told me he will be coming out with a .508 hand slide in the very near future.

-------
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Scott Bentall-Freelance
No pressure=No sound=No gigs
---------------------------------------------
Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
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« Reply #13 on: Nov 15, 2015, 06:04PM »

I like the serial number scheme, except there will be a Y2k+100 problem.  :)

You are SO right!  He should be prepared... and use FIVE digit year numbers  Evil

That would save future musicologists SO much heartache :)
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« Reply #14 on: Nov 15, 2015, 08:52PM »

Good lord!

His prices are ridiculously low for hand-made custom instruments!

He must be doing this for the love of it, a true craftsman.  Has he any interest in doing a large bore with an F attachment?  I think the world would beat a 4 lane highway to his door.  (maybe a slight exaggeration)

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« Reply #15 on: Nov 16, 2015, 05:58AM »

They don't have 4 lane highways in the Smoky mountains. Just gravel roads :D
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« Reply #16 on: Nov 16, 2015, 06:37AM »

Fascinating stuff!  What are your initial impressions about the horns' power and blend?

With such a unique horn I'm always wary about how it will fit into a section, but my Williams has no problems.  I've been pursuing a Williams-ish horn from which I can get some additional volume.  Could this be it?  I've recently played 3bs and like .508 horns but find that they don't sound nearly as pleasant as my Williams, but I need something for rock bands...
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« Reply #17 on: Nov 16, 2015, 06:45AM »

Fascinating stuff!  What are your initial impressions about the horns' power and blend?

With such a unique horn I'm always wary about how it will fit into a section, but my Williams has no problems.  I've been pursuing a Williams-ish horn from which I can get some additional volume.  Could this be it?  I've recently played 3bs and like .508 horns but find that they don't sound nearly as pleasant as my Williams, but I need something for rock bands...

====

Depending on how a Lawler is set up you can get a huge palate of sounds/colors. The combination I am choosing has some of the qualities of my Williams "L" model which is nothing like the numbered models that Earl made in later years. I have no doubt that it will blend beautifully in the trombone sections that I play in.

====
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Scott Bentall-Freelance
No pressure=No sound=No gigs
---------------------------------------------
Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
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« Reply #18 on: Nov 16, 2015, 07:13AM »

The Williams "L" blows rather tight for a .522 though it has the most glorious sound known to mankind.
I have one of those early "L's". TIS  Good!

T.
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« Reply #19 on: Nov 24, 2015, 11:08AM »

What does the nickel gooseneck do to the feel and sound as compared to brass gooseneck?
I am a big fan of Martin Comittee trombones. I am going to talk to Mr. Lawler about a custom small bore trombone
in the near future. I love to support persons with unique vision. The removable flares creates a lot
of flexibility! Congratulations to Mr Lawler!
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« Reply #20 on: Nov 25, 2015, 06:37AM »

What does the nickel gooseneck do to the feel and sound as compared to brass gooseneck?
I am a big fan of Martin Comittee trombones. I am going to talk to Mr. Lawler about a custom small bore trombone
in the near future. I love to support persons with unique vision. The removable flares creates a lot
of flexibility! Congratulations to Mr Lawler!

As far as the nickel gooseneck is concerned, it depends on the rest of the set up. But overall, I believe it tends to brighten the sound and speed up the response just a tad.

These are really nice trombones. The very best I've played in a long time.
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Scott Bentall-Freelance
No pressure=No sound=No gigs
---------------------------------------------
Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
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« Reply #21 on: Nov 25, 2015, 07:46AM »


These are really nice trombones. The very best I've played in a long time.

Better than the Inderbinens?
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« Reply #22 on: Nov 25, 2015, 07:58AM »

Better than the Inderbinens?

For me, yes. I loved my Inderbinen but it was very heavy and poorly balanced; very front heavy. The Inderbinen is very unique in every aspect, including sound. The sound is wonderful but not American. The Lawler has a very American sound and feel, and for me, that's what I like.
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Scott Bentall-Freelance
No pressure=No sound=No gigs
---------------------------------------------
Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
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« Reply #23 on: Dec 11, 2015, 09:39AM »

What is the bell-to-slide relationship like? 

I mean to ask: is the bell further out like a King/Conn, or further in like a Bach/Getzen?  How long is the slide (as far as you could tell)?

Thanks!

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« Reply #24 on: Dec 11, 2015, 10:10AM »

What is the bell-to-slide relationship like? 

I mean to ask: is the bell further out like a King/Conn, or further in like a Bach/Getzen?  How long is the slide (as far as you could tell)?

Thanks!



The bell length is more like a King. The slide is as long as it needs to be. :D Seriously, everything is very well balanced. I hope to have mine the first week of the new year.
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Scott Bentall-Freelance
No pressure=No sound=No gigs
---------------------------------------------
Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
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« Reply #25 on: Dec 11, 2015, 07:43PM »

Sheriff,
I have a '47 pristine Committee.  I love it's sound.  I play mostly in the commercial setting and my Committee fits in well, but I grew up on Kings and my goto is a 3B anniversary Silversonic.  When I am tired I may downsize to a wonderful '53 Olds Studio!  I really would like to get one of Mr. Lawler's trombones due to my experience with some of his previous work.  What combination(s) might you suggest for me.  Thanks for you thoughts.
Kevin McAlley  aka salsabone
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« Reply #26 on: Dec 12, 2015, 07:58AM »

Sheriff,
I have a '47 pristine Committee.  I love it's sound.  I play mostly in the commercial setting and my Committee fits in well, but I grew up on Kings and my goto is a 3B anniversary Silversonic.  When I am tired I may downsize to a wonderful '53 Olds Studio!  I really would like to get one of Mr. Lawler's trombones due to my experience with some of his previous work.  What combination(s) might you suggest for me.  Thanks for you thoughts.
Kevin McAlley  aka salsabone


Hi Salsabone,

It would be difficult for me not to recommend the combination I chose. I can not imagine any good player not liking the set-up I chose, but of course, we are all different. It took me a day and a half of playing to arrive at my set-up. I've played and owned a lot of great small bores in my life and this new Lawler is right up there with the very best of the lot.

If you decide to order one you can ask him for my set-up. Which is: 85/15 .025 bell stem, nickel neck pipe, brass tuning slide inners with an 85/15 tuning slide bow. If you go for the two flare deal that he offers, I'd choose an 85/15 .022 @ 7 1/2" and a 70/30 .022 @ 7 3/4" both with soldered rim. My hand slide is all nickel. He is also sending me a tuning slide with a 70/30 bow for comparison.

I hope you get one. Roy is every bit as good as the best trombone designers/makers in modern history.
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Scott Bentall-Freelance
No pressure=No sound=No gigs
---------------------------------------------
Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
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« Reply #27 on: Jan 07, 2016, 07:24PM »

-----------

Hey all.

The Lawler Trombone arrived today. Roy is a genius. It's better than I remembered. And remember, this is not the horn that I played during my visit, so that speaks to his build consistency.

More later. I start a 6 week run of HAIRSPRAY on the 18th so I'll be able to put it through its paces then.

========
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Scott Bentall-Freelance
No pressure=No sound=No gigs
---------------------------------------------
Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
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« Reply #28 on: Jan 07, 2016, 08:34PM »

Pics????   :) Eeek!
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« Reply #29 on: Jan 07, 2016, 08:52PM »

Pics????   :) Eeek!

I don't do pics. It looks just like the ones on his website.
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No pressure=No sound=No gigs
---------------------------------------------
Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
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« Reply #30 on: Jan 07, 2016, 08:52PM »

I'll hopefully get a chance to try the horn soon. Scott lives pretty close to me.  
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« Reply #31 on: Jan 07, 2016, 08:58PM »

I'll hopefully get a chance to try the horn soon. Scott lives pretty close to me.  

Luke, you lean towards dark and somewhat veiled sounding horns. This is not that. You could achieve dark and veiled with a Lawler by choosing different materials than I did. But......We'll work out a time for you to swing by and give it a blow. I think this new Lawler will surprise you; in a good way.
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No pressure=No sound=No gigs
---------------------------------------------
Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
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« Reply #32 on: Jan 08, 2016, 05:20AM »

I have to admit a certain curiosity about these horns. Does anyone here know if anyone in the NY/NJ area has one that they'd be willing to let me try out a bit?
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« Reply #33 on: Jan 08, 2016, 05:43AM »

I have to admit a certain curiosity about these horns. Does anyone here know if anyone in the NY/NJ area has one that they'd be willing to let me try out a bit?

Give Roy a call and ask him if he has sold one to anyone in the NYC/NJ area.
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No pressure=No sound=No gigs
---------------------------------------------
Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
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« Reply #34 on: Jan 08, 2016, 06:29AM »

you want  pics -------
   buy a  playboy  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Pics????   :) Eeek!
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« Reply #35 on: Jan 08, 2016, 07:31AM »

A buddy of mine, Ray Mason ordered one from Roy. He lives in the area. Brooklyn maybe? You can find him on Facebook. He doesn't have the horn yet but he probably will by next month.
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« Reply #36 on: Jan 08, 2016, 08:31AM »

I know Ray - we've played together before. Been awhile. I'll reach out to him.

Thanks!
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« Reply #37 on: Jan 08, 2016, 11:31AM »

I know Ray - we've played together before. Been awhile. I'll reach out to him.

Thanks!


Count me in, please. He's in Brooklyn? You live in New Jersey?? I'll drive.

S.
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« Reply #38 on: Jan 08, 2016, 01:26PM »

Sam, I'll be in touch with you shortly - still chattin' with Ray about it.
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« Reply #39 on: Jan 08, 2016, 01:36PM »

Share your impressions!  I would be excited to cross-reference them.
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« Reply #40 on: Jan 08, 2016, 02:35PM »

I have to admit a certain curiosity about these horns. Does anyone here know if anyone in the NY/NJ area has one that they'd be willing to let me try out a bit?

I was going to say 'road trip', but 14 hours is perhaps more of a road trip than I'm willing to share with you fine gentlemen.

I'm in Boone fairly often though and that makes the drive only six hours. I probably will do it.

What's not to love? American made. Super sleek design. I love the built in balance weight - maybe Scott Bentall had some input there inspired by his Piccola? AND the curvy grip with no knurling on the connector. And a SCREW BELL. I have never had the pleasure of traveling with a screw bell trombone (and appropriately slim case), but it really could only get better than it is now, no?

Plus a practical endorsement from The Sheriff.

I'm sort of secretly happy that the Lawler trombone has survived. I doubt it's easy out there for small manufacturers.

Oh, and did I mention the price?!!! Amazed Amazed Amazed
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« Reply #41 on: Jan 08, 2016, 04:23PM »




What's not to love? American made. Super sleek design. I love the built in balance weight - maybe Scott Bentall had some input there inspired by his Piccola?

Plus a practical endorsement from The Sheriff.

I'm sort of secretly happy that the Lawler trombone has survived. I doubt it's easy out there for small manufacturers.

Oh, and did I mention the price?!!! Amazed Amazed Amazed


I had no input regarding the balance weight. That was all Roy.

===
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« Reply #42 on: Jan 08, 2016, 04:26PM »

Sam, I'll be in touch with you shortly - still chattin' with Ray about it.


Did you ask Ray what set-up he ordered? I'd like to know. I'd ask Roy, but I'd rather not bother him with something like that. His time is precious and I try not to bug him.

Thanks

==
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« Reply #43 on: Jan 08, 2016, 05:56PM »

He let me know but I cannot remember what it is at the moment. I let him know to chime in here so hopefully he will put something up soon.
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« Reply #44 on: Jan 08, 2016, 06:08PM »

Hey y'all:

I ordered:

.025 Yellow Brass Stem w yellow brass tuning slide (70/30 zinc/copp)
.025 8 inch yellow brass flare
.025 8 inch bronze flare
Nickel neck pipe
Yellow brass slide .500 w nickel crook

I have been playing on a .525 Lawler Big Boy I got from DJ a few months ago and I love the instrument. That horn is 8.5 inch yellow bell .525 nickel silver slide w brass crook. Despite other claims about his older horns this one is great, slide is incredible...it just needed a counterweight to be balanced but I found one that fits.

Roy is amazing. Will let you know when it arrives.

-Ray

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« Reply #45 on: Jan 08, 2016, 08:49PM »

Hey y'all:

I ordered:

.025 Yellow Brass Stem w yellow brass tuning slide (70/30 zinc/copp)
.025 8 inch yellow brass flare
.025 8 inch bronze flare
Nickel neck pipe
Yellow brass slide .500 w nickel crook

I have been playing on a .525 Lawler Big Boy I got from DJ a few months ago and I love the instrument. That horn is 8.5 inch yellow bell .525 nickel silver slide w brass crook. Despite other claims about his older horns this one is great, slide is incredible...it just needed a counterweight to be balanced but I found one that fits.

Roy is amazing. Will let you know when it arrives.

-Ray



Nice! When I played the bronze flare I found it to be extremely even from top to bottom; very legit like.

Your bell section is gonna be nice and hefty being all .025 with 8" flares. Attaboy!
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« Reply #46 on: Jan 15, 2016, 05:17PM »

Once Scott finishes his show at the end of February I should be able to check out the Lawler and post some impressions on here. Given his seal of approval though I'm sure the horn is killer.
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« Reply #47 on: Jan 16, 2016, 02:48PM »

--------

Lawler leadpipes.

Roy sent me three leadpipes. All are 7 5/16" in length, press-fit, and are stamped #5 (.405 venturi), #10 (.410 venturi), and #15 (.415 venturi). The pipes are all one piece, though his standard pipes are two piece, like a King trombone has. I typically prefer a one piece pipe so that is what I had him make for me. They fit perfectly, no tape required.

It should be easy for any player to zero in on the pipe they like best. For me, it is the #10. At some point I may ask Roy to send me a two piece #10 for comparison.

More later........

======
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« Reply #48 on: Feb 12, 2016, 04:23PM »

So how's the horn working out for you?

I saw that Roy will start offering .508 slides this month. 

I may have to visit Roy when I'm home next.  Traveling as much as I do, the screw bell is very appealing.
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« Reply #49 on: Feb 12, 2016, 09:50PM »

So how's the horn working out for you?

I saw that Roy will start offering .508 slides this month. 

I may have to visit Roy when I'm home next.  Traveling as much as I do, the screw bell is very appealing.

====

It's top notch in every way. Love it.

====
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« Reply #50 on: Feb 13, 2016, 02:22PM »

Sticking with Roy's pipe or using one of your own?
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« Reply #51 on: Feb 14, 2016, 07:20AM »

Sticking with Roy's pipe or using one of your own?

=====

I settled on Roy's #10 pipe, .410 venturi. All of his pipes provided me with a quicker response than any of the Kanstul pipes that I have. In fact, I found Roy's #5 pipe, .405 venturi,  to be a great match with my Kanstul.

=====
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« Reply #52 on: Mar 03, 2016, 12:46PM »

Wanted to update the forum on the Lawler Trombone:

My horn arrives next week!

A couple of things:

Roy is currently working on finalizing a soft gig bag with backpack straps that holds the horn and two bell flares (stacked in the case).

He also is modifying my hard shell case to have D-Rings like the Eastman fiberglass cases so you can attach backpack straps (BAM, etc.) and wear the hard case.  His hard case uses a shell from SKB, so the weight, feel, and dimensions will be similar to a rectangular saxophone or viola case. Heavier than a gig bag, but very protective and able to fit in overhead!

The gig bag option is going to be a game changer!

Lastly, Roy just sent a horn to Dillon Music this week, it should arrive today or tomorrow.  So for anyone that wants to try out a Lawler in the NYC Metro Area, you can go do that next week!

I'm excited!!!

-Ray
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« Reply #53 on: Mar 03, 2016, 01:31PM »

Wanted to update the forum on the Lawler Trombone:

My horn arrives next week!

A couple of things:

Roy is currently working on finalizing a soft gig bag with backpack straps that holds the horn and two bell flares (stacked in the case).

He also is modifying my hard shell case to have D-Rings like the Eastman fiberglass cases so you can attach backpack straps (BAM, etc.) and wear the hard case.  His hard case uses a shell from SKB, so the weight, feel, and dimensions will be similar to a rectangular saxophone or viola case. Heavier than a gig bag, but very protective and able to fit in overhead!

The gig bag option is going to be a game changer!

Lastly, Roy just sent a horn to Dillon Music this week, it should arrive today or tomorrow.  So for anyone that wants to try out a Lawler in the NYC Metro Area, you can go do that next week!

I'm excited!!!

-Ray

 Amazed Amazed

Any Lawlers going to be at ATW?
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« Reply #54 on: Mar 22, 2016, 12:23AM »

Wanted to update the forum on the Lawler Trombone:

My horn arrives next week!
I'm excited!!!

-Ray

Any updates you'd like to share with us? 

I'm going to visit Roy in May to see if this is the direction I want to go.  The screw bell idea is particularly attractive.  I hate flying with my horn, and I might be doing even more of it in the near future.
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« Reply #55 on: Mar 22, 2016, 05:33AM »

I tried the model they had at Dillons. If memory serves (and it might not - the visit was before a long and intense run of Ragtime on tuba, so all I seem to remember is playing 2 beat bass lines  :/), the setup was as follows:

Red Brass Stem
Yellow Brass Flare .022 Thickness
Red Brass Flare 0.025 Thickness
Yellow Brass outer slide - .500 bore (he's now doing a .508 bore as well, but they didn't have it)

I found I did not like the Red Brass flare at all. While it was warm, it sounded muffled. Or dampened. It would work solo for someone who liked the particular tone, but I could not imagine it blending AT ALL with a section (at least, not with all of the sections I work with).

However, the Yellow Brass flare was awesome! The horn plays magnificently. Very even response throughout to my playing, and all of the small design elements he talks are the icing on an amazing cake. Obviously, the curved grip is great, but on top of that, the flush bell to slide coupling was immensely comfortable. The horn was perfectly balanced for my grip, and the water key is, at least for me, the perfect length.

I've been planning an upgrade for awhile, and will be pulling the trigger in 2017, and now Lawler is on my short list for a small bore horn. I seriously thought I was going to start going all Shires, but trying that horn has really opened my eyes and made me reconsider. Plus, with that price, I could fly round trip and spend a day there, and still come in hundreds better than a Shires while still getting to work with Lawler to customize it (assuming he'd be ok with that).

Definitely worth a look!
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« Reply #56 on: Mar 23, 2016, 01:13PM »

PREFACE: I have been on this Screw Bell Trombone Quest for over a year now and I think I found the perfect travel/tour/everyday??? horn for me!

I will add to Brad's comments:

I just got my Lawler today and been having a blast playing it.

The bell section is heavier than a typical King 3B flare, but it feels well balanced and comfortable nevertheless. The curved grip feels great.  The slide was feeling amazing right out of the box.  It is lightweight, but not TOO lightweight.  Mine is an all yellow brass slide. 

The one downside is I wanted a nickel silver slide crook ala Conn and Roy forgot to make the slide this way...he said it is something he will fix for free if I end up not liking the full yellow slide.

Right now I am really into the 8inch .025 Bronze bell flare on the yellow brass stem.  It has a great character to it.  It plays with a "vintage quality" that I feel from really old Bachs (one of the reasons I got a nickel silver neckpipe), 60s Conns, even Williams 6 with the 8inch flare.  I'm getting a lot of colors out of it. I love the broad sound of the 8 inch bell flare.  It still feels punchy but has a great feel too it...and this horn plays LOUD, without breaking up.

I was worried about the .500 slide, because I mainly play .525, but the blow is right.  I'm not overblowing on it.  The horn doesn't feel too fragile like some newer horns I've played.  It is a beautiful thing.

The water key and slide receiver are like the old Martin Committees from the 40s?  They look great and work well.  No leaks like the Saturn Water Key.

The Yellow Bell sounds MONSTROUS.  Having an entire yellow brass horn (except the nickel silver neckpipe) allows me to literally cut through any amplified instrument and retain some warmth.

  It lacks the complexity I like to hear on solo stuff, but still rings and sounds really good.  IDEAL for New Orleans Brass Band, Salsa Band, Pop Gigs....all three are jobs I do A LOT.  I'm still breaking it in so we will see...

That being said...its only been a few hours so I will write another report in a week or so.

I'm testing out the three leadpipes...I like the "10".  "5" is too stuffy for me, like an old king leadpipe (some guys like that resistance)...the "15" sounds nice but high register felt a little weird...I will continue to try them all out.

THE CASE IS GREAT! Bells on bottom, slide on the top with a protector.  It's a little bit heavy, but as mentioned before, Roy is working on a gig bag.
Its like a mini casio keyboard road case!! I'm flying to LA on Monday and will appreciate having this case in the airport.

The whole thing cost me $2225...his site says $2500 but he took off the price of the lacquer because I wanted it all raw brass.


*SIDE NOTE*

Based on my experience trying the Elliot Mason Model BAC Trombones at NAMM, I wholeheartedly recommend anyone interested in that horn, try a Lawler. 

Weight wise they are similar in concept (Heavier than usual straight bell section, lightweight slide) But the Lawler is way more balanced....EM Model bell has a Bass Trombone weight to it and the slides feel like so light that they are like glass (very weird IMO).

You can get that sound with a yellow/gold brass stem and a Bronze 8inch bell from Lawler.

And you get a sick hard case...and it has a clean vintage look to it (unless you want the flashy look, live your life!)...AND its HALF the price of an EM BAC Model...
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« Reply #57 on: Mar 23, 2016, 05:03PM »

 Good! Good! Good!
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« Reply #58 on: Apr 11, 2016, 11:27PM »

I just want to make one last post since I've had the horn a few weeks.

It is still the best small bore horn I've played in a long time.

The horn can take what I give it and sound great. It is so comfortable to hold and play for hours.

While on my old BAC horn I had to pull the tuning slide almost all the way out...the Lawler is so in tune without much adjustment.

I've used it in pop gigs, on TV, and commercial recordings with the yellow bell. Sounds great in all situations.

I've used the Bronze bell on some of my own bands stuff, solo small group stuff, and Easter church gigs (instead of my 36B!) and it fit right in and had a warm, even "legit" sound.

I played with the yellow brass bell in a big band rehearsal (w Andrae and Jack Jeffers of the Ellington Orchestra) and it blended right in with their horns.

Just to clarify, Roy didn't forget to give me a nickel crook. He told me he thought the all yellow slide (no nickel crook) would be a better blow than messing with different materials on the slide...I haven't tried it another way, but I'm very happy with the yellow slide and the nickel neckpipe. Articulations are clear but I get a warm sound. I think the all yellow set up with a nickel slide would be a little too crisp for me.

Also, my bell stem is a .025 gauge which is the heaviest he makes. His .022 and lighter stems,
Coupled with a .022 bell flare will feel more like a standard small bore in weight. Personally, I prefer the heaviest because I need a horn that can take a lottt of energy.

The hard case is next level. I've been on about 12 flights since I've gotten the horn. The case fits so easily into any overhead. In fact, on one flight I put it IN FRONT of two smaller rolling suitcases and it fit snug with the bin closed. Insane. Flight attendants do not even know if I have something on my back. It's lighter than my Eastman case with straps.  It is the perfect travel trombone...but also knocks many small bore custom Horns out of the water.

The gig bag looks ridiculously small...like those soft cases camera guys use to transport their tripods in.

I have been using the #15 leadpipe the most open one for a lot of the past few gigs but I really like the #10 on my bronze bell.

Thats my final update...I'm planning to send my Big Boy to him to "modernize" it.

HornQuest ended...for now!


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« Reply #59 on: Apr 12, 2016, 01:29AM »

I have an appointment to visit the shop in about 6 weeks. Can't wait!
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« Reply #60 on: Apr 12, 2016, 05:22AM »

I just want to make one last post since I've had the horn a few weeks.

It is still the best small bore horn I've played in a long time.

The horn can take what I give it and sound great. It is so comfortable to hold and play for hours.

While on my old BAC horn I had to pull the tuning slide almost all the way out...the Lawler is so in tune without much adjustment.

I've used it in pop gigs, on TV, and commercial recordings with the yellow bell. Sounds great in all situations.

I've used the Bronze bell on some of my own bands stuff, solo small group stuff, and Easter church gigs (instead of my 36B!) and it fit right in and had a warm, even "legit" sound.

I played with the yellow brass bell in a big band rehearsal (w Andrae and Jack Jeffers of the Ellington Orchestra) and it blended right in with their horns.

Just to clarify, Roy didn't forget to give me a nickel crook. He told me he thought the all yellow slide (no nickel crook) would be a better blow than messing with different materials on the slide...I haven't tried it another way, but I'm very happy with the yellow slide and the nickel neckpipe. Articulations are clear but I get a warm sound. I think the all yellow set up with a nickel slide would be a little too crisp for me.

Also, my bell stem is a .025 gauge which is the heaviest he makes. His .022 and lighter stems,
Coupled with a .022 bell flare will feel more like a standard small bore in weight. Personally, I prefer the heaviest because I need a horn that can take a lottt of energy.

The hard case is next level. I've been on about 12 flights since I've gotten the horn. The case fits so easily into any overhead. In fact, on one flight I put it IN FRONT of two smaller rolling suitcases and it fit snug with the bin closed. Insane. Flight attendants do not even know if I have something on my back. It's lighter than my Eastman case with straps.  It is the perfect travel trombone...but also knocks many small bore custom Horns out of the water.

The gig bag looks ridiculously small...like those soft cases camera guys use to transport their tripods in.

I have been using the #15 leadpipe the most open one for a lot of the past few gigs but I really like the #10 on my bronze bell.

Thats my final update...I'm planning to send my Big Boy to him to "modernize" it.

HornQuest ended...for now!




Thanks for the update. Good stuff.
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« Reply #61 on: Apr 12, 2016, 08:31PM »

So do these cases have backpack straps, similar to the Eastman case? These horns are really interesting and it's nice to hear about one craftsman doing what he loves rather than all of the drama with Conn-Selmer.
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« Reply #62 on: Apr 13, 2016, 02:31AM »

Does he do clear ( ie gloss) lacquer?.........
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« Reply #63 on: Apr 13, 2016, 09:46AM »

The hard case doesn't come with backpack straps. I use Bam Cello Case Straps. Roy will install three little D-Rings similar to where they lie on an Eastman case (he has an Eastman case at his shop for reference). Then select your after market strap. I know the Eastman and Bam clamps and straps will work great.

Horns are raw brass with a brush finish, then he does a "brushed lacquer" which looks awesome on the inside bell of my old .525 Big Boy. I just have my new horn in raw brass. I'm sure he can do a clear shiny lacquer, that is what my .525 lawler has on the bell flare, no brush finish.
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« Reply #64 on: Apr 13, 2016, 12:23PM »

Does he do clear ( ie gloss) lacquer?.........

----

He'll finish the horn any way you like.

===

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« Reply #65 on: May 15, 2016, 07:37AM »

WOW   !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Thanks for the update. Good stuff.

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LUCKY  LUCKY LUCKY  !!!!!!!!!!
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« Reply #66 on: May 15, 2016, 10:30AM »

I also recently had a chance to visit Roy and his shop, arriving there Friday afternoon and spending a few hours there playing his horns. My purpose for going there was to attempt to find either a worthy second small bore horn or something that could potentially compete with playing time from my 3BSS. I love my Silversonic and what I am able to do on it (thanks to DJ for helping me get it back - story for another day), but I would love to find a horn that can do all of that but make it a little bit easier on me, from the terms of blow (quicker response), efficiency (less work on me), and weight (did stress damage to my wrists in college from playing a heavy horn).

With all that in mind, Roy started me out with .20 yellow brass stem with a .20 yellow flare and a .500 lightweight nickel slide with brass crook and we worked up in weight from there. No matter what I tried or what we switched out, I can say that these are some of the easiest playing horns I have ever encountered. I won't go over every iteration of what I played but I'll list out a few things that I learned that worked out well for me:

  • The grip is super comfortable and make holding and playing the horn easy. Was actually hard to put his horn down.
  • I found the overall blow to be more even and efficient when I played a full yellow brass stem section as opposed to one with a nickel gooseneck.
  • The .20 stem was light (not too light) and easy to maneuver when paired with a .20 flare. I liked the blow even more when I used a .22 flare.
  • I think I tried only one combination of all red brass and didn't care for the blow at all. Too enough front to the sound if I remember correctly.
  • Being a primarily .508 player, I thought I would gravitate easily to his .508 slide but that was not the case. I much preferred his .500 slide, likely because of the efficiency of the blow and how much less I had to work.
  • For those who prefer a lightweight gig bag, Roy's bags are awesome. It's almost like carrying your horn in a quiver.

At the end of the afternoon and into the evening, here is what I ended up with:

  • All yellow brass .020 stem, tuning slide and gooseneck
  • 7 3/4 inches .022 Red brass flare that had a thinner rim on it. Loved this flare and was one that Scott Bentall was testing out. Felt like I could shape the sound however I wanted to with it.
  • He didn't have one there but I ordered an 8 inch .025 bronze flare for something completely different. Would be nice to have something for legit (brass quintet or church) gigs. Will share my thoughts on that when I have time to play on it.
  • .500 lightweight nickel slide with brass crook
  • Roy thought I played the best on his 405 lead pipe but is going to send me at least a 405, and 410 and a second one (either or) that is going to be in nickel. More on that when I get them.
  • I loved the gig bag but I had a bad experience with one many years ago in college, so I went with the hard case. I don't fly very often with a horn but the hard case will make it very easy to carry your horn on and fit in an overhead bin.

I highly encourage anyone looking for a new horn to consider Roy's horns. Looking forward to receiving mine in a few months.
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« Reply #67 on: May 15, 2016, 11:19AM »

So far it seems that the nickel slide tubes are more popular.  Interesting.  I almost always prefer brass. 
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« Reply #68 on: May 15, 2016, 03:50PM »

I also recently had a chance to visit Roy and his shop, arriving there Friday afternoon and spending a few hours there playing his horns. My purpose for going there was to attempt to find either a worthy second small bore horn or something that could potentially compete with playing time from my 3BSS. I love my Silversonic and what I am able to do on it (thanks to DJ for helping me get it back - story for another day), but I would love to find a horn that can do all of that but make it a little bit easier on me, from the terms of blow (quicker response), efficiency (less work on me), and weight (did stress damage to my wrists in college from playing a heavy horn).

With all that in mind, Roy started me out with .20 yellow brass stem with a .20 yellow flare and a .500 lightweight nickel slide with brass crook and we worked up in weight from there. No matter what I tried or what we switched out, I can say that these are some of the easiest playing horns I have ever encountered. I won't go over every iteration of what I played but I'll list out a few things that I learned that worked out well for me:

  • The grip is super comfortable and make holding and playing the horn easy. Was actually hard to put his horn down.
  • I found the overall blow to be more even and efficient when I played a full yellow brass stem section as opposed to one with a nickel gooseneck.
  • The .20 stem was light (not too light) and easy to maneuver when paired with a .20 flare. I liked the blow even more when I used a .22 flare.
  • I think I tried only one combination of all red brass and didn't care for the blow at all. Too enough front to the sound if I remember correctly.
  • Being a primarily .508 player, I thought I would gravitate easily to his .508 slide but that was not the case. I much preferred his .500 slide, likely because of the efficiency of the blow and how much less I had to work.
  • For those who prefer a lightweight gig bag, Roy's bags are awesome. It's almost like carrying your horn in a quiver.

At the end of the afternoon and into the evening, here is what I ended up with:

  • All yellow brass .020 stem, tuning slide and gooseneck
  • 7 3/4 inches .022 Red brass flare that had a thinner rim on it. Loved this flare and was one that Scott Bentall was testing out. Felt like I could shape the sound however I wanted to with it.
  • He didn't have one there but I ordered an 8 inch .025 bronze flare for something completely different. Would be nice to have something for legit (brass quintet or church) gigs. Will share my thoughts on that when I have time to play on it.
  • .500 lightweight nickel slide with brass crook
  • Roy thought I played the best on his 405 lead pipe but is going to send me at least a 405, and 410 and a second one (either or) that is going to be in nickel. More on that when I get them.
  • I loved the gig bag but I had a bad experience with one many years ago in college, so I went with the hard case. I don't fly very often with a horn but the hard case will make it very easy to carry your horn on and fit in an overhead bin.

I highly encourage anyone looking for a new horn to consider Roy's horns. Looking forward to receiving mine in a few months.

====

Nice report and congratulations on ordering one. Roy is the man! That red brass flare with the thinner rim is a real beauty.

Scott

------
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Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
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Conn 71H
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« Reply #69 on: May 15, 2016, 04:52PM »

A guy in my brass quintet plays a Lawler trumpet. He loves it.
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« Reply #70 on: May 15, 2016, 07:49PM »

Have their been any thoughts about producing bass trombone bells?

Joe Stanko
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« Reply #71 on: May 15, 2016, 08:06PM »

hey  joe
   where  you  goin  with  that  bone in your  hand  ???????
--------
  bass  bone bells   --another world  ---mandrels   
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« Reply #72 on: May 16, 2016, 07:31AM »

Have their been any thoughts about producing bass trombone bells?

Joe Stanko

-----

There has been no talk about producing a bass bone bell or a complete bass trombone. As far as I know, Roy does not want to build a horn larger than .525.

Scott

====
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Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
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« Reply #73 on: May 16, 2016, 09:34AM »

There has been no talk about producing a bass bone bell or a complete bass trombone. As far as I know, Roy does not want to build a horn larger than .525.

The only thing Roy mentioned to me was that when he was fully setup to make trombones full time, he would like to be able to offer the option to cut and convert bell sections to removable flares.
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« Reply #74 on: May 16, 2016, 11:07AM »

Thanks for posting your account, Sid!  Great writeup.

At the end, you write: "I look forward to seeing mine in a few months" - does that mean you would get a different horn than the one you tried at his shop?  (With the same components?)


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« Reply #75 on: May 16, 2016, 12:04PM »

At the end, you write: "I look forward to seeing mine in a few months" - does that mean you would get a different horn than the one you tried at his shop?  (With the same components?)

That is correct. Roy doesn't have a huge inventory of components in his shop but enough to try more or less everything that he offers. He also made a point to tell me that buying anything right there in his shop would incur a 9% sales tax addition to the order. Digging through this post, I think Scott commented on this exactly:

-----------
Hey all.

The Lawler Trombone arrived today. Roy is a genius. It's better than I remembered. And remember, this is not the horn that I played during my visit, so that speaks to his build consistency.

More later. I start a 6 week run of HAIRSPRAY on the 18th so I'll be able to put it through its paces then.
========

I'm honestly not worried at all with the build consistency and will be very happy come the end of July when it arrives.
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« Reply #76 on: May 22, 2016, 11:57AM »

That is correct. Roy doesn't have a huge inventory of components in his shop but enough to try more or less everything that he offers. He also made a point to tell me that buying anything right there in his shop would incur a 9% sales tax addition to the order. Digging through this post, I think Scott commented on this exactly:

I'm honestly not worried at all with the build consistency and will be very happy come the end of July when it arrives.

Right, he is super consistent. I am sure you will be very satisfied.
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Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
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« Reply #77 on: May 22, 2016, 05:11PM »

-----

There has been no talk about producing a bass bone bell or a complete bass trombone. As far as I know, Roy does not want to build a horn larger than .525.

Scott

====

Any idea if a 525 w/F might be a future option?





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« Reply #78 on: May 23, 2016, 06:43AM »

Any idea if a 525 w/F might be a future option?


======

Yes!

======
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« Reply #79 on: May 23, 2016, 06:50AM »

Do you know what valve he is thinking of using?
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« Reply #80 on: May 23, 2016, 09:16PM »

I just pulled in the driveway from a long day of 280 miles each way and 4 hours at Roy's shop.

Roy has really got something going on down there in rural Tennessee!

I pulled in at about 1pm local time, and Roy greeted me outside and welcomed me into the shop.  We had a little chat to get acquainted, and got to work. 

After a long afternoon of testing, I ended up settling on the all-yellow .25 stem (finished just a few days ago) with the .25 8" bronze flare.  I started with a .22 yellow stem with nickel neck pipe and spent quite a bit of time on the .25 red stem with the nickel neckpipe,. Ultimately I wanted something close to the sound of my Earl Williams 6 but maybe a bit "gutsier" punch to it, and the combo I chose did that for me.

The better part of the afternoon of testing was spent on the nickel .500 slide with the brass crook, but once I made the switch to the bell section I ultimately chose, he suggested I try the all-nickel slide just for kicks.  Everything felt easier and more fluid, but one thing that stuck out to me is that the one with the brass crook had a better....how-you-say... "wave" to the slide vibrato. I went back and forth and back and forth, even considering a nickel neckpipe to split the difference, but ultimately that all-nickel slide won out in the end.  I didn't try the .508 slide.  He had just one in the shop, and I think four .500's, one in all brass. I liked it too, but there was something about the nickel!

After all of that, I wanted to pick a 2nd slightly smaller flare with noticeably different sound.  The one that stood out was the red .22 7 3/4" rim that's been mentioned before.  That thing is something else! I may have to splurge on the 7 1/2 yellow .22 at some point as well...

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but he's going to stop making trumpets by the end of the year to focus solely on building trombones. I did ask him if he plans to build anything larger, and it didn't seem that he'll be doing that anytime soon.  He did mention that he'd consider doing .491 and/or a .481/.491 (like a dual bore 2B) somewhere down the road. 
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« Reply #81 on: May 24, 2016, 05:52AM »

I just pulled in the driveway from a long day of 280 miles each way and 4 hours at Roy's shop.

Roy has really got something going on down there in rural Tennessee!

I pulled in at about 1pm local time, and Roy greeted me outside and welcomed me into the shop.  We had a little chat to get acquainted, and got to work. 

After a long afternoon of testing, I ended up settling on the all-yellow .25 stem (finished just a few days ago) with the .25 8" bronze flare.  I started with a .22 yellow stem with nickel neck pipe and spent quite a bit of time on the .25 red stem with the nickel neckpipe,. Ultimately I wanted something close to the sound of my Earl Williams 6 but maybe a bit "gutsier" punch to it, and the combo I chose did that for me.

The better part of the afternoon of testing was spent on the nickel .500 slide with the brass crook, but once I made the switch to the bell section I ultimately chose, he suggested I try the all-nickel slide just for kicks.  Everything felt easier and more fluid, but one thing that stuck out to me is that the one with the brass crook had a better....how-you-say... "wave" to the slide vibrato. I went back and forth and back and forth, even considering a nickel neckpipe to split the difference, but ultimately that all-nickel slide won out in the end.  I didn't try the .508 slide.  He had just one in the shop, and I think four .500's, one in all brass. I liked it too, but there was something about the nickel!

After all of that, I wanted to pick a 2nd slightly smaller flare with noticeably different sound.  The one that stood out was the red .22 7 3/4" rim that's been mentioned before.  That thing is something else! I may have to splurge on the 7 1/2 yellow .22 at some point as well...

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but he's going to stop making trumpets by the end of the year to focus solely on building trombones. I did ask him if he plans to build anything larger, and it didn't seem that he'll be doing that anytime soon.  He did mention that he'd consider doing .491 and/or a .481/.491 (like a dual bore 2B) somewhere down the road. 
====

Thanks, Dave. Good info, as always, and congratulations on your new Lawler. I think with a bit of arm twisting, Roy could be convinced to build a .525. I think I'll start the arm twisting.

====
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Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
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« Reply #82 on: May 24, 2016, 06:02AM »

Do you know what valve he is thinking of using?
====

When I was discussing this with Roy, he said he would probably build his own valve.

====
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« Reply #83 on: Jun 16, 2016, 06:34AM »

======

Ok..............After owning Roy's horn for a while here it is: They are super efficient, super immediate, pitch monsters with a great old-timey sound. You can ease up on your blow and everything that you want is there, with the added benefit of greater endurance. Amazing!

That is all.

Scott

======
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Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
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« Reply #84 on: Jun 16, 2016, 10:06AM »

I can't wait til September to take delivery of mine! I'm using a Jiggs 2B right now, and it sounds like a tin can in comparison!
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« Reply #85 on: Jun 16, 2016, 10:53AM »

I bought one as my birthday gift to myself several months ago. I have played it for several Salsa gigs and a Big Band rehearsal. Everything said here is true. I have a Selmer Bolero and a Shires MDplus. The Lawler is my favorite of these. More efficient and easier to play with more personality than the MD PLUS and a better tone than the Bolero.
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« Reply #86 on: Jun 16, 2016, 11:26AM »

I bought one as my birthday gift to myself several months ago. I have played it for several Salsa gigs and a Big Band rehearsal. Everything said here is true. I have a Selmer Bolero and a Shires MDplus. The Lawler is my favorite of these. More efficient and easier to play with more personality than the MD PLUS and a better tone than the Bolero.

Would you say it falls between the two in terms of sound?
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« Reply #87 on: Jun 16, 2016, 12:47PM »

Sound changes quite a bit depending on the material and size of bell flare used in the Lawler. But the general feel is
of efficiency and a sound with an intangible quality that makes it more interesting than the clinical
almost analytical tone of the Shires MD plus. But that is just a personal opinion based on my preferences.
 
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« Reply #88 on: Jun 16, 2016, 01:47PM »

I'm using a Jiggs 2B right now, and it sounds like a tin can in comparison!

======

Yup!

======
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« Reply #89 on: Jun 16, 2016, 01:48PM »

Sound changes quite a bit depending on the material and size of bell flare used in the Lawler. But the general feel is
of efficiency and a sound with an intangible quality that makes it more interesting than the clinical
almost analytical tone of the Shires MD plus. But that is just a personal opinion based on my preferences.
 

======

Spot on, brother!

---------
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« Reply #90 on: Jun 16, 2016, 04:13PM »

I think I want one of these.
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« Reply #91 on: Jun 16, 2016, 07:15PM »

I think I want one of these.

Me too.......... It sounds as if Roy is making something special in his workshop.......
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« Reply #92 on: Jun 16, 2016, 07:59PM »

Me too.......... It sounds as if Roy is making something special in his workshop.......

=====

He definitely is.

-------
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Williams 6 (Bob)
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« Reply #93 on: Jun 16, 2016, 10:20PM »

Me too.......... It sounds as if Roy is making something special in his workshop.......

I second what Scott said - he is. And for those reading all this likening it to some sort of propaganda, I recommend you find out yourself. That's why I visited. Like many here, I have taken the trombone knowledge path once upon a time. And my proximity to DJ's house makes it relatively easy to try things if I want to (just over an hour away). Having owned several fantastic horns and played even more at his house, what I played at Roy's shop is among the very best that I have ever encountered. The thing that gets me is that it is just him doing this. Very much looking forward to that phone call from him saying the horn is on the way.
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« Reply #94 on: Jun 17, 2016, 08:03PM »

Sound changes quite a bit depending on the material and size of bell flare used in the Lawler. But the general feel is
of efficiency and a sound with an intangible quality that makes it more interesting than the clinical
almost analytical tone of the Shires MD plus. But that is just a personal opinion based on my preferences.
 

If I may ask, what setup do you have on your horn?

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« Reply #95 on: Jun 18, 2016, 03:39PM »

I have a brass lightweight. 500 bore slide , a nickel silver neckpipe with a brass tuning slide and the .25 gauge goldbrass stem. My bell flares are .22 gauge 7.75 inch gold brass and .22 8 inch yellow brass bell flare.
I also love the Shires MD plus 508 bore I have and would also reccomend it for the great evenness and great tuning as well as ease of play. The tone of the MD plus is a cleaner sound. The Lawler has more stuff going on with the colors of sound. A person looking for that clean sound might prefer the Shires MD plus over the Lawler. That might be because the Shires is a very lightweight yellow brass bell with nickel silver lightweight slide and a yellow brass king style crook. I ordered the Lawler with different configurations in order to provide a contrast compared to the Shires MD plus which is also a fantastic horn.
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« Reply #96 on: Jun 18, 2016, 03:58PM »

What I mean by gold brass is the 85/15 ratio. The yellow brass is the 70/30 ratio I believe.
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« Reply #97 on: Jun 18, 2016, 06:36PM »

What I mean by gold brass is the 85/15 ratio. The yellow brass is the 70/30 ratio I believe.

Gotcha! Thanks for the response :).
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« Reply #98 on: Jun 19, 2016, 09:30PM »

yeah  --i  recently had two  great  blowing bachs'
     lt12  w  brass outers
    mv  16  bell   brass outers  in twin  509 bore  //touch plate --5000s serial   BUT  2000s  ##  on end of outer trim  ring --most likely a peppy  built
---------------
  whats  great abt roy  is the fine tuning   different combos and materials offer
--------
 i have  that  herb bruce   twin bore narrow  slide    in 525  --but it blows  like a 500
had a big boy  much earlier
-------------
   roy is  becoming the  new earl   w/o  all the hype of  pinkie 
the first time i heard  herb  on a  490  ---WOW  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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« Reply #99 on: Jun 20, 2016, 12:15AM »


   roy is  becoming the  new earl   w/o  all the hype of  pinkie 


It really does seem that way :)
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« Reply #100 on: Jun 26, 2016, 11:45PM »

I'm planning on ordering a third .22 7 3/4 red brass flare that everyone keeps mentioning. I may also buy a .508 nickel silver slide.

Lastly, I bought the .525 Big Boy from DJ months ago and will be sending it to Roy soon. He's going to take the existing components (slide tubes and bell flare are killer!) and modernize it with his newer design concepts. I'd like to put a valve on it, but it remains to be seen if that is what will end up happening. I think I will keep the bell solid and not convert it, but that also is up in the air...

Stay tuned.



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« Reply #101 on: Jun 29, 2016, 11:31PM »

Hmmm I think I'll be ordering one of these in the next month or two, can anyone who's tried these tell me which combo I might/should choose if I want something that's close to an LA Williams 6 sound and able to "cut"/project as easily, but tonally just a bit darker. Thanks in advance...
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« Reply #102 on: Jun 30, 2016, 07:05AM »

You're trying to get something DARKER than a 6? 

I haven't played the Lawler yet but I would imagine that the .508 would be requirement #1.  Also the heaviest bell options...

Others may correct me...
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« Reply #103 on: Jun 30, 2016, 07:20AM »

Hmmm I think I'll be ordering one of these in the next month or two, can anyone who's tried these tell me which combo I might/should choose if I want something that's close to an LA Williams 6 sound and able to "cut"/project as easily, but tonally just a bit darker. Thanks in advance...
Scroll back and read what I posted following my visit.  I based my choices on my Williams 6.
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« Reply #104 on: Jun 30, 2016, 10:38AM »

Scroll back and read what I posted following my visit.  I based my choices on my Williams 6.

Yea I saw that :). I was just checking for the ability to project yet maintain a dark sound until pushed :-P... I probably can't try these out so I may go with a very similar setup. I know you talked about nickel/brass crook slide vs nickel, but how did the nickel compare to the all brass slide? Thanks!
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« Reply #105 on: Jun 30, 2016, 12:34PM »

All I really noticed is that slurs were a bit easier with the nickel crook but that slide vibrato was more pronounced with the brass crook.

Not you dissuade you from going Lawler, but I like the Conn Connstellation for what you seem to be looking for.  I've been a Williams player for 10 years, but I like the 48H a lot (I have two!).  They're a bit darker, but light up and cut when pushed.  Super solid build too, especially the earliest ones.
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« Reply #106 on: Jun 30, 2016, 02:39PM »

All I really noticed is that slurs were a bit easier with the nickel crook but that slide vibrato was more pronounced with the brass crook.

Not you dissuade you from going Lawler, but I like the Conn Connstellation for what you seem to be looking for.  I've been a Williams player for 10 years, but I like the 48H a lot (I have two!).  They're a bit darker, but light up and cut when pushed.  Super solid build too, especially the earliest ones.

Yea I actually really like the older ones (I believe they used a 10h coprion bell on those)... Definitely would be worth looking into, thanks!
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« Reply #107 on: Jun 30, 2016, 03:25PM »

Yea I actually really like the older ones (I believe they used a 10h coprion bell on those)... Definitely would be worth looking into, thanks!

Actually the conn loyalist speculates that they were copper - covered brass bells
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« Reply #108 on: Jun 30, 2016, 05:55PM »

Actually the conn loyalist speculates that they were copper - covered brass bells

Hmmm... interesting
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« Reply #109 on: Jul 01, 2016, 07:14AM »

Hmmm I think I'll be ordering one of these in the next month or two, can anyone who's tried these tell me which combo I might/should choose if I want something that's close to an LA Williams 6 sound and able to "cut"/project as easily, but tonally just a bit darker. Thanks in advance...

-------

LB-2 red brass 85/15 stem (.022), 85/15 flare (.022), 85/15 tuning slide bow with yellow brass tuning slide inners, yellow brass neck pipe, yellow brass hand slide w/nickel bow (.500). That's where I'd start.

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« Reply #110 on: Jul 01, 2016, 08:05AM »

Actually the conn loyalist speculates that they were copper - covered brass bells

This makes sense because nickel plates well to copper.  Woodwind keys are often made from nickel-silver.  Then plated with copper followed by nickel (or just silver-plated directly).
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« Reply #111 on: Aug 07, 2016, 06:29PM »

The horn I ordered from Roy Lawler arrived Thursday. The combination I purchased was a .020 yellow brass stem with yellow brass goose neck, .022 7 3/4 red brass, .025 8 inch bronze flare and .500 nickel slide with brass crook. After spending the last few days with it, I can confirm that the setup with the .022 7 3/4 red brass is everything I remembered from my visit to Roy's shop in May. The combo with the .025 8 inch bronze flare is broader and more diffuse in sound. That setup I am looking forward to using in big band gigs, brass quintet and church gigs. I've settled on a 405 venturi lead pipe for now but am expecting a few nickel two-piece lead pipes from Roy here soon to try. Very excited to take the horn to a few upcoming rehearsals here in the next week or two plus giving some friends time to play the horn as well.
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« Reply #112 on: Aug 12, 2016, 07:46AM »

 Pant Pant Pant Pant Pant Pant Pant Pant Pant Pant Pant Pant Pant Pant
==========
all this   is really  great  !!!!!!  the  first time i heard  herb  bruce  playing 
 i  heard something wonderful  -----------
==============
thank you  for all the very very  specific  trials comparisons  tests  and  supporting  roy  lawler 
==============
////about copperion  bell  10h //48h flare   no  confirmation  as  yet ---i  thought about file away   a  place  close to the tuning slide ferrule
    just  hit a ''parts-fixer''  on  bay and have a bell fitted  w 3b  receiver --shipped  the best  connie i ever  saw heard  or imagined to wolfie  in switzerland
     a  ''flash'' copper  coating is  typical  as it  separates  and  makes adhesion of  following  metal  plating  secure
----------
oh  i sent some pics to  wes funderburk's student grady     //in one pic  is the  gold played  HERB  BRUCE // TWIN  BORE   in satin
  so the kid  gets all  excited  !!!!!!!!  thats  what i  want  !!!!!
  yeah  and  he will be waiting for acmetrombones//aaron chandler   to finish one //////a  3b  //////////
     now if this isnt  to quick  SID  and  PINEAPPLE  can help --
 
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LUCKY  LUCKY LUCKY  !!!!!!!!!!
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« Reply #113 on: Aug 12, 2016, 10:23AM »

Quote
yeah  and  he will be waiting for acmetrombones//aaron chandler   to finish one //////a  3b  ////////// now if this isnt  to quick  SID  and  PINEAPPLE  can help --

Tell him to estimate his waiting time between one and eleven months. Or better yet, tell him to save up the money to buy one of Roy's horns. Between the saving of money and waiting for the horn, he'll probably get a horn faster from Roy.
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« Reply #114 on: Aug 12, 2016, 11:33AM »

Hello,
do the flares come with a ring attached? Are they the Shires ring (are they shires compatible).
Thanks
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« Reply #115 on: Aug 15, 2016, 09:02AM »

Hello,
do the flares come with a ring attached? Are they the Shires ring (are they shires compatible).
Thanks

The ring is on the bell stem. As for if the threads are compatible with Shires threads, I do not know that answer but would assume they are not.
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« Reply #116 on: Sep 17, 2016, 07:36AM »

I received my Lawler two days ago.

I'm very happy with the components I chose.  (to recap: Heavy .025 all-yellow bell section, .025 bronze 8 in flare, .022 gold 7 3/4 flare, all nickel .500 slide)

The horn is definitely heavy to hold, but is still comfortable. It's super-flexible, and the sound is ridiculous! Or maybe I should say "sounds" - The two flares change the sound so much that it's like having two different trombones. I think I'll use the gold flare more often (though I picked the bronze first).  The slide is perfect - Not ultra light, but just right.

I'll be able to say more about it once I get to use it in ensemble situations.  Suffice to say, I'm very satisfied!

The slim case is fantastic, but strangely enough, there's no place to put a mouthpiece! (what?!) I've already taken an X-Acto knife and cut a space into the foam, so that problem will be solved once I glue/sew some fabric into the space.

If you're on Facebook, I've posted a public photo album:
https://www.facebook.com/daveashley/media_set?set=a.10154330407146357.1073741870.511711356

 
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« Reply #117 on: Sep 17, 2016, 08:30AM »

I'm awaiting the arrival of my Lawler as well!

I based my order on a conversation with Roy earlier this summer, and he made his recommendations based on some of my initial preferences and the kinds of playing I do. I'm not able to make the trip down to his shop, but everything I've read here and on his website seems spot on to what I am looking for!

I ordered a .025 red brass (85/15) stem with nickel neck pipe, 8" .022 yellow brass bell, 7.75" .022 red brass bell, all nickel .500 slide with the slim case. I am also trying his .405 and .410 leadpipes. I will likely order a bronze bell later on.

I will keep an eye on this thread and report in once I receive it - I'm hoping for the end of the month - we'll see!
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« Reply #118 on: Sep 18, 2016, 05:58PM »



 It's super-flexible, and the sound is ridiculous!
 

Could you elucidate this statement a bit more?  What's the sound like?  Does it slot firmly and pop or is it more liquidy smooth? 
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« Reply #119 on: Sep 19, 2016, 06:17AM »

Could you elucidate this statement a bit more?  What's the sound like?  Does it slot firmly and pop or is it more liquidy smooth? 

Well, the flares really define the sound. I don't know if I can state precisely what the "sound is like" because everyone has their sound, but I can compare it to other horns I own.  I tried to get a combo that came closest to sounding like my Williams 6, and I think I achieved that pretty well with the bronze flare.  When I switch to the .022 gold/red flare, it's closer to my 6H.  A little more highs, more lyrical sound when playing softer. I can say, as the website claims, that the Lawler has a more "vintage" sound than other new horns I've tried out lately.  I guess that means a great breadth of overtones - very open sounding.

The Lawler definitely has more 'pop' to the partials than my Williams, and probably even my .500 Conns (48H and 6H).  Going back and forth, I've found that the partials are more predictable/reliable/even than I get with the Conns.  Williams has this quality, but the slurs are much smoother and covered. I've long wished for more pop and solid attack from the Williams. My 6 is pretty lightweight, and it can get a bit wild.  It's easy to split loud attacks, so I feel I always have to be in excellent shape and be very disciplined to play it cleanly.  I don't think I'll have that problem with the Lawler.

Like I said before, I'll have to play it in ensemble situations and report back.  I just got off my cruise gig and have some dental work (today! ugh...), so it may be a while before I can give it a full evaluation.
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« Reply #120 on: Sep 19, 2016, 01:01PM »

Since having my horn for about six weeks now, I thought I would put down a few notes on the three flares I have played with my setup (.020 yellow stem, gooseneck, tuning slide; .500 nickel slide with yellow brass crook; .405 brass lead pipe)

7 3/4 .022 red brass flare with thinner rim  - This was my initial testing flare, the one I primarily use for playing and my personal favorite of those tried. A nice mix of direct sound with some overtones in the middle range. Has been a favorite of everyone that has played it so far. Low range really honks, as one friend told me at a rehearsal. Still able to cut in the upper register when needed. Have used it in big band, combo with three horns, backing up vocals in rock groups and it has fared admirably.

8 inch .022 yellow brass flare with thinner rim - Broader but brighter sound than red flare above. Less overtones. DJ called this splashy when he played on it and really put the pedal down. Another friend of mine tried this combo and said it reminded him of his all yellow brass Edwards.

8 inch .025 bronze flare - Like Dave mentioned, this flare feels like the whole horn changed. Almost legit like. Very dense and rich sound quality. Fantastic low range with this flare. Loved using this on some chorale-like backgrounds with a vocal group but I was working more in the upper range with this as opposed to other flares. Obviously doesn't cut nearly as much as the ones above. If I was going to play a small bore in church, brass quintet, or even a concert band setting, this is what I would use. I don't think I'd want to use this playing lead in a strong/loud big band but for section work, absolutely.

The only other thing I would say for those ordering the slim hard case is to get some extra foam or some sort of padding to put around the flares, as I have already gotten a ding or two in the flare sitting closest to the bell section.
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« Reply #121 on: Oct 20, 2016, 08:48PM »


Has anyone tried the .508 bore slide?
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« Reply #122 on: Oct 24, 2016, 01:39PM »

Has anyone tried the .508 bore slide?

I tried one briefly when I visited Roy in May. My full time horn from 2010 to August of this year was a 3B Silversonic, so I thought that I would gravitate right toward his .508 but that was not the case. I played with much less effort and more versatility on his .500 than the .508. I don't remember finding anything wrong with it in general, other than I felt more at home on the .500 slide.
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« Reply #123 on: Oct 26, 2016, 07:50AM »

I ordered a horn through Roy. What a great guy! I just want to mirror what everyone else has said about his personal character and his business in general. The process so far has been wonderful. I am getting:
LB1-2 .022 thick yellow brass stem with a nickel neckpipe.
8” .022 yellow brass RBS (round bead soldered) bell
7 3/4" .022 red brass bell
LS5-N .500 bore nickel slide with a brass end bow
no lacquer
#10??? Leadpipe (whatever his middle one is).
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« Reply #124 on: Oct 29, 2016, 06:35AM »

I ordered a horn through Roy. What a great guy! I just want to mirror what everyone else has said about his personal character and his business in general. The process so far has been wonderful. I am getting:
LB1-2 .022 thick yellow brass stem with a nickel neckpipe.
8” .022 yellow brass RBS (round bead soldered) bell
7 3/4" .022 red brass bell
LS5-N .500 bore nickel slide with a brass end bow
no lacquer
#10??? Leadpipe (whatever his middle one is).


Congratulations. You might want to order a #15 leadpipe too.
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Scott Bentall-Freelance
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Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
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« Reply #125 on: Nov 06, 2016, 08:04AM »

As you can see from my post count and join date - I have been following the forum for a long time without posting much. I really appreciate the depth of knowledge and information found here about pretty much any question I have ever had regarding any aspect of trombone playing. I am an enthusiastic amateur player - math teacher by day - active in various big bands, brass quintet, and other groups as time allows. I felt the need to post regarding my experience with my Lawler trombone so far. I ordered in early August, and he delivered as scheduled at the end of September. I've tweaked my set-up over the past month with different leadpipes and flares and I am very pleased with my final instrument:

.025 red brass stem with nickel neckpipe
all nickel .500 slide
.410 one piece leadpipe
.022 8" yellow flare
.022 7.75" red brass flare
.025 8" bronze flare.

I wasn't able to make a trip to see Roy, and he has been very gracious in allowing me to try various options - swapping out flares and leadpipes as needed. His recommendations before ordering were great and I am very happy with the result after trying a number of different flares and leadpipes.

The build quality is great - and I come to appreciate it immensely as I play more in different settings and groups. The intonation is spot on and although I am still adjusting from my Bach 16, I have found the intonation between partials very accurate. Also - the upper register feels very fluid and I don't feel the "wall" I always felt on my Bach 16 (dual) when moving above high G. It took me a while to "dial in" my preferences for a leadpipe, and after initially preferring the .405 pipe I feel great on the .410 I am playing now - much better consistency and evenness for me. I am playing on a Giddings Watters mouthpiece that really works well for me with this horn.

The bell flares are a revelation to me - I'm amazed at the variety of sound possible with the 3 flares I am using. The yellow flare cuts really well in big band, but can be warmed up easily when needed. I'm really into the bronze flare as well - it is unlike anything I have ever played - very interesting and engaging sound for me whether played loud or soft. The red flare is also very good - bridges the differences between the yellow and bronze.

Just thought I would share my experiences - this is the most enthusiastic I have been about an instrument in quite some time!
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« Reply #126 on: Nov 06, 2016, 08:51AM »

It's great to read about everybody's experience.  I have loved every minute with my Lawler.  I've posted about my initial experience, but not much since September.

I've found that the Kanstul H6 leadpipe I brought to the shop has been the best fit *for me* so far.  I think I'll get some use out of the #10 I got from Roy as well, but I find the Kanstul to be a bit "snappier" and simply better suited to the way I play. I thought I'd probably like my Shires nickel #2 in it since that's my preferred pipe on my Williams 6. I absolutely do NOT like it on the Lawler. I can't even put my finger on why.  It just doesn't work.  Don't know

I've also picked up a 8 inch yellow .022, and I find it's more "me" than the others (I guess "me" being like the Williams 6 I've played for 11 years). Roy is also building me a 7.5 inch yellow .022 with unsoldered, rounded rim.  I just figured it'd be nice to have something totally different.  I'll soon have four flares! In my estimation, there are over 100 bell flare possibilities between materials, thicknesses, rims and sizes. I hope these four will do!

Oh - and one more thing.  I've slapped an Edwards counterweight on it.  I find it centers up things a little.  Yes, it adds even more weight to an already-heavy bell section, but I can handle it, and it doesn't throw the bell/slide balance off enough to bother me.



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« Reply #127 on: Dec 15, 2016, 10:00AM »

Just got my horn a couple weeks ago and wow, very impressed with just about everything... I don't intend to talk very much about the horn in this post but to simply ask for some advise. The #10 leadpipe works super well for me while using 7 1/2 red brass bell. Wow the colors and character the sound has is outstanding. I ended up going with that bell and the yellow brass 8' to match my yellow stem, but found the yellow bell gave a different more commercial sound then what I'm looking for right now. So, soon I will be getting an 8' bronze bell in exchange. But will plan on getting the yellow in the future. What I'm looking for is a good match in terms of leadpipes to give me a large responsive sound almost orchestral sound but on a 500. Bore Lawler with 8inch bronze bell. Any suggestions? Thanks! Hi
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« Reply #128 on: Dec 15, 2016, 12:55PM »

Just got my horn a couple weeks ago and wow, very impressed with just about everything... I don't intend to talk very much about the horn in this post but to simply ask for some advise. The #10 leadpipe works super well for me while using 7 1/2 red brass bell. Wow the colors and character the sound has is outstanding. I ended up going with that bell and the yellow brass 8' to match my yellow stem, but found the yellow bell gave a different more commercial sound then what I'm looking for right now. So, soon I will be getting an 8' bronze bell in exchange. But will plan on getting the yellow in the future. What I'm looking for is a good match in terms of leadpipes to give me a large responsive sound almost orchestral sound but on a 500. Bore Lawler with 8inch bronze bell. Any suggestions? Thanks! Hi

Buy a Kanstul W6 press-fit leadpipe direct from Kanstul. That pipe works very well in my Lawler and should achieve what you are going for.
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Scott Bentall-Freelance
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« Reply #129 on: Dec 17, 2016, 06:12AM »

Anyone want to share some pictures. I am still patiently waiting for mine to arrive in January. I need some Picts.to help me daydream.
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« Reply #130 on: Dec 17, 2016, 06:19PM »

Here's my Facebook album:
https://www.facebook.com/daveashley/media_set?set=a.10154330407146357.1073741870.511711356&type=3
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« Reply #131 on: Dec 19, 2016, 09:56AM »

Any of these horns in DC/Baltimore? Way cool
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« Reply #132 on: Dec 19, 2016, 12:18PM »

Mine's in New Zealand right now. Sorry!
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« Reply #133 on: Feb 01, 2017, 01:32PM »

Received my horn today. Played it for about 5 minutes so very little to report on how it plays. I REALLY like the red brass bell. In the limited time playing I found the 8" yellow is VERY SHOUTY Evil. If you want to cut, this is it. I think I will add a counterweight because the balance is a bit front heavy for me yet it is comfortable in my hands. Overall I am pleased, can't wait to play it in a group setting on Sunday. Specs. on the horn are listed in my reply above. Link includes a ton of pictures for those interested.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4xhcjza19td3kaq/AADZq_IgfaGjVk1xDvfmp0PTa?dl=0


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« Reply #134 on: Feb 01, 2017, 08:09PM »

Received my horn today. Played it for about 5 minutes so very little to report on how it plays. I REALLY like the red brass bell. In the limited time playing I found the 8" yellow is VERY SHOUTY Evil. If you want to cut, this is it. I think I will add a counterweight because the balance is a bit front heavy for me yet it is comfortable in my hands. Overall I am pleased, can't wait to play it in a group setting on Sunday. Specs. on the horn are listed in my reply above. Link includes a ton of pictures for those interested.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4xhcjza19td3kaq/AADZq_IgfaGjVk1xDvfmp0PTa?dl=0


======

Very nice. Counterweight? Really? Give it time and I bet you'll decide against that idea.

======
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Scott Bentall-Freelance
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Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
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« Reply #135 on: Feb 02, 2017, 06:05AM »

I assume he'll make one without the brush finish. I have to admit I've never been the biggest fan thereof.
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« Reply #136 on: Feb 02, 2017, 06:58AM »

I assume he'll make one without the brush finish. I have to admit I've never been the biggest fan thereof.

Yes, he'll finish it however you want it finished.
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Scott Bentall-Freelance
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Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
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« Reply #137 on: Feb 18, 2017, 08:26AM »

 Hi what would you guys compare the Lawler "feel" to? I haven't played that many small bore horns just a couple Holtons, couple Conn's, a Williams 8 and a Bach 6. It doesn't feel that close to any of the old Conn 500 bores I've played. The core to it reminds me of the Williams but with a Holton Finish (kind of?). I have a Yellow 5 stem with a 7 3/4 red brass flare, all nickel slide... The Lawler feels different though from any horn I've ever played.
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« Reply #138 on: Feb 18, 2017, 08:34AM »

Pardon my asking, but where did you find a Lawlor?  Your profile says you are a student.
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« Reply #139 on: Feb 18, 2017, 09:26AM »

Hi what would you guys compare the Lawler "feel" to? I haven't played that many small bore horns just a couple Holtons, couple Conn's, a Williams 8 and a Bach 6. It doesn't feel that close to any of the old Conn 500 bores I've played. The core to it reminds me of the Williams but with a Holton Finish (kind of?). I have a Yellow 5 stem with a 7 3/4 red brass flare, all nickel slide... The Lawler feels different though from any horn I've ever played.
-----

Well of course it feels different than other small bores. It was built by Roy Lawler. Lawler trombones, like any other brand, have their own signature.

====
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Scott Bentall-Freelance
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Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
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« Reply #140 on: Feb 18, 2017, 11:55AM »

Pardon my asking, but where did you find a Lawlor?  Your profile says you are a student.

Just finished Junior high. I think if Mr. Lawler made horns for the rest of my 9th grade section mates we'd probably sound a heck of a lot better don't you think?
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« Reply #141 on: Feb 18, 2017, 04:25PM »

The horn is based on a Martin Committee, but I don't think you can compare it to any one brand or model.  Even a change of bell flare can change the way it plays and sounds.
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« Reply #142 on: Feb 18, 2017, 05:15PM »

Just finished Junior high. I think if Mr. Lawler made horns for the rest of my 9th grade section mates we'd probably sound a heck of a lot better don't you think?

That really depends.  If your section mates sound like a herd of wounded moose (mooses?) on what they play now they will sound like that on a cohort of Lawlers.  The players who are running against the limits of their student trombones (not likely in Junior High) they might sound better.
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« Reply #143 on: Feb 18, 2017, 08:53PM »

Just finished Junior high. I think if Mr. Lawler made horns for the rest of my 9th grade section mates we'd probably sound a heck of a lot better don't you think?
I have to agree with Bruce.  At the junior high level this is unlikely.

Some of the really 'nice' pro trombones are actually detrimental to the inexperienced player because their responsiveness creates instability for the inexperienced embouchure.  To draw from an area I am intimately experienced with, putting a beginning rider on an all-out race bike is a serious mistake.  They are just not capable of the control necessary to manage such a machine.  The same can be said for a top echelon trombone and a player that has trouble hitting a 5th harmonic note.

The best trombones reward accuracy and control.  Beginners might find them a little much to handle and certainly will not be able to take advantage of their refinements.
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« Reply #144 on: Feb 18, 2017, 08:55PM »

BTW moose is both singular and plural.  Like sheep.
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« Reply #145 on: Feb 20, 2017, 03:48AM »

Sorry to hijack the thread a bit, but I'm thinking about getting a Lawler and was wondering if any of you who have been to see Roy might be able to help me. I don't have any opportunities for a trip to the US for quite a while, so I can't try bits out, unfortunately. Obviously, I'd need to get in touch with Roy to hear his advice, but thought some of you might have some ideas about what might work for me.

I have a late '40s Martin Committee that can be a lot of fun to play, but I'd like something that's a little bigger and more free blowing. I also find it difficult to keep the brightness in check when playing loud. I borrowed a friend's Martin Urbie model for a gig recently and everything felt much more secure than it would have done on my Committee. I really liked its colourfulness at soft dynamics, but I'm told (and felt) that the sound spread more than it projected when I pushed it to keep up with the band. There were a couple of moments where I pushed it past my limits and the brightness became unpleasant, though the threshold was a little higher than on my Committee. I say "my limits" because I'm sure a better player than I could play louder without being so unmusical, but the threshold is definitely higher, again, on both the 2B Silversonic and .500 Kuhnl and Hoyer Bart van Lier model I've spent some time playing in the past. As far as feel goes, the Urbie was really great, though. I also quite like the way the Bart van Lier horns feel, but my tone was a little less colourful/interesting than I'd like.

Do you think it would be possible for Roy to make a horn with a similar responsiveness and colourfulness at soft dynamics to a Martin Urbie without it backing and breaking up so soon in the dynamic range? Going off my experiences with a screwbell Holton TR-281 compared to an otherwise identical 181, I would guess that a screwbell Lawler would lend itself to projecting and "keeping together" better at loud dynamics without losing speed of response. Of course, that's without going into all the permutations of a Lawler or having any real understanding of the various options' effects...

Thanks in advance!
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« Reply #146 on: Feb 20, 2017, 06:34AM »

Sorry to hijack the thread a bit, but I'm thinking about getting a Lawler and was wondering if any of you who have been to see Roy might be able to help me. I don't have any opportunities for a trip to the US for quite a while, so I can't try bits out, unfortunately. Obviously, I'd need to get in touch with Roy to hear his advice, but thought some of you might have some ideas about what might work for me.

I have a late '40s Martin Committee that can be a lot of fun to play, but I'd like something that's a little bigger and more free blowing. I also find it difficult to keep the brightness in check when playing loud. I borrowed a friend's Martin Urbie model for a gig recently and everything felt much more secure than it would have done on my Committee. I really liked its colourfulness at soft dynamics, but I'm told (and felt) that the sound spread more than it projected when I pushed it to keep up with the band. There were a couple of moments where I pushed it past my limits and the brightness became unpleasant, though the threshold was a little higher than on my Committee. I say "my limits" because I'm sure a better player than I could play louder without being so unmusical, but the threshold is definitely higher, again, on both the 2B Silversonic and .500 Kuhnl and Hoyer Bart van Lier model I've spent some time playing in the past. As far as feel goes, the Urbie was really great, though. I also quite like the way the Bart van Lier horns feel, but my tone was a little less colourful/interesting than I'd like.

Do you think it would be possible for Roy to make a horn with a similar responsiveness and colourfulness at soft dynamics to a Martin Urbie without it backing and breaking up so soon in the dynamic range? Going off my experiences with a screwbell Holton TR-281 compared to an otherwise identical 181, I would guess that a screwbell Lawler would lend itself to projecting and "keeping together" better at loud dynamics without losing speed of response. Of course, that's without going into all the permutations of a Lawler or having any real understanding of the various options' effects...

Thanks in advance!
=====

A 40's Committee is .484 bore and a new Lawler is either .500 or .508, your choice. Most seem to prefer the .500, myself included. Everything you are looking for can be had in a new Lawler and I'd certainly start with a correspondence with Roy. He is very helpful and knows his stuff. My Lawler is more colorful than any Urbie I've ever played, so yeah, he can build you what you're looking for. The response of a Lawler is very immediate, and the pitch of his horns is the best I've ever encountered. Everything lines up beautifully! They're special, to be sure.
And they're very efficient horns too. You can play at 3/4 throttle and get all you'd ever need or want from a trombone. Brilliant design!

I believe you get the most color from the red brass that he offers, either .022 or .025. My stem, flare, and tuning slide are all red brass and my slide is all nickel. Send him an email if you haven't already done so.

I speak with Roy about once a month and he has some exciting stuff in the pipeline, primarily based on my suggestions and input. Keep us posted.

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« Reply #147 on: Feb 20, 2017, 06:58AM »

Nothing like these horns, think core. Talk with him about the stem, that's the base of all the brilliant characteristics your going to find. The flare is just a cherry on top. But a necessary cherry of coarse.
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« Reply #148 on: Feb 20, 2017, 07:44AM »

Nothing like these horns, think core. Talk with him about the stem, that's the base of all the brilliant characteristics your going to find. The flare is just a cherry on top. But a necessary cherry of coarse.

=====

The flare is more than a cherry on top. The horn is a system. A system that has many variables in the choices that are available from Roy. Some combinations work better than others for me, or you, or........Some combinations probably won't work well for most anyone, and some combinations will work well for most everyone.

If Roy had to choose just one combination of parts/materials for just one standard horn, if you will, he probably has in his mind what that would be.

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« Reply #149 on: Feb 20, 2017, 09:50AM »

Have you ever played it Sackbut style?
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« Reply #150 on: Feb 20, 2017, 10:00AM »

Ive played it sackbut style as a joke and it still sounds super punchy.  Kind of amazing.

I was thinking of selling my horn, since I was staying home and doing more studio work on the .525, but I had a string of dates out of town and took it with me and it's really just such a great horn I can't part with it.

Thinking about getting a .022 red brass bell stem with a 7.5 inch .022 red bell...been getting into small bore NY bachs with the smaller bell and alloy in between yellow brass and gold brass...plus I can toss my 8 inch yellow brass and bronze bells on it!

These horns are really my most favorite of the modern trombones being produced...especially if you are a lover of vintage horns and their unique qualities.  Too much character!

AND I can fly in a small jet and it fits in the overhead just fine ;-)
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« Reply #151 on: Feb 20, 2017, 03:26PM »


These horns are really my most favorite of the modern trombones being produced...especially if you are a lover of vintage horns and their unique qualities.  Too much character!

===

There ya have it!

===
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« Reply #152 on: Feb 20, 2017, 03:28PM »

Any of these horns going to be at ATW?
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« Reply #153 on: Feb 20, 2017, 08:18PM »

Thanks for the replies! This is what Roy said:

Slide: LS5N .500 bore nickel slide, brass end bow.
Bell stem: LB1-2 yellow brass .020 thick yellow brass neck pipe.
Flare: .020 yellow 8 inch round soldered bead
Extra Flare: red brass 7 3/4 inch .025

It seems to be a fairly light setup, aside from the extra flare. Do you think it would still hold together well at volume?
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« Reply #154 on: Feb 20, 2017, 08:44PM »


...been getting into small bore NY bachs with the smaller bell and alloy in between yellow brass and gold brass...plus I can toss my 8 inch yellow brass and bronze bells on it!


Sounds familiar :)
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« Reply #155 on: Feb 20, 2017, 08:57PM »

Thanks for the replies! This is what Roy said:

Slide: LS5N .500 bore nickel slide, brass end bow.
Bell stem: LB1-2 yellow brass .020 thick yellow brass neck pipe.
Flare: .020 yellow 8 inch round soldered bead
Extra Flare: red brass 7 3/4 inch .025

It seems to be a fairly light setup, aside from the extra flare. Do you think it would still hold together well at volume?

Hey, that's what I have.. yellow stem Is... How do I say it.... Clean. Yeah..
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« Reply #156 on: Feb 20, 2017, 09:25PM »

Thanks for the replies! This is what Roy said:

Slide: LS5N .500 bore nickel slide, brass end bow.
Bell stem: LB1-2 yellow brass .020 thick yellow brass neck pipe.
Flare: .020 yellow 8 inch round soldered bead
Extra Flare: red brass 7 3/4 inch .025

It seems to be a fairly light setup, aside from the extra flare. Do you think it would still hold together well at volume?
====

An LB1-2 is .022 not .020. Smack dab in the middle. Nice. You're gonna dig it. It'll hold up, not to worry. The light flare with a round soldered bead will project very well. What type of bead on the red? Nickel slide tubes will give a bit of pop and the yellow crook will give the feeling of allowing you to give it more air....and volume. What about the tuning slide crook? Yellow brass like the stem? Tuning slide inners, nickel or yellow brass?

====
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Scott Bentall-Freelance
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Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
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« Reply #157 on: Feb 21, 2017, 06:17AM »

You should be Roy's publicity man, Scott! Thanks for all the info.

I'm glad to hear that combination will project well and hold up at loud dynamics. I actually copied that info directly from the email Roy sent me, so I don't actually know about the bead on the red bell or the tuning slide materials. When I hear back from him again, I'll ask Roy what he'd suggest for those bits.

I almost want a 7 1/2 inch bell purely to keep more inline with the Committee aesthetic. Is that bad!?
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« Reply #158 on: Feb 21, 2017, 06:43AM »

Does Roy have a horn that is along the line of the classic 8" bell 6H?
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« Reply #159 on: Feb 21, 2017, 07:05AM »

You should be Roy's publicity man, Scott! Thanks for all the info.

I'm glad to hear that combination will project well and hold up at loud dynamics. I actually copied that info directly from the email Roy sent me, so I don't actually know about the bead on the red bell or the tuning slide materials. When I hear back from him again, I'll ask Roy what he'd suggest for those bits.

I almost want a 7 1/2 inch bell purely to keep more inline with the Committee aesthetic. Is that bad!?

Roy is a busy man and has made plenty of typos in his email correspondences with me too. If he said LB1-2 then that is what you'll get (.022). My .022 red flare is the only flare I have and it is 7 1/2" and has the bead that is his standard bead; the edge of the rim is folded back onto itself and rolled flat and soldered. Mine is lovely. I originally had two other flares that I sent back because the 7 1/2" .022 red is the bees knees, baby!! You can easily change your order to a 7 1/2" or order another one like mine, giving you a choice of three flares to have lots of fun with!

After a year with this horn I am continually amazed at how good it is. I've also ordered an 8" .020 yellow flare with a conventional round bead, soldered, with a rim wire.....just because.

So here is my set-up, which is a little different than my original post simply because I was mistaken when I started this thread back in November of 2015. Stem is an LB2-5 (.025)-85/15 red brass. Tuning slide crook is 85/15 red brass and the tuning slide inners are yellow brass. Nickel neck pipe. Hand slide is .500 all nickel. I use a Kanstul W6 lead pipe.

Changes that are beyond what is Roy's normal design are as follows. Roy's counterweight is achieved by making the tuning slide exterior straight leg portion extra thick wall as well as the connecting ferrules for the two upper cross braces. I had him make the straight leg portion exterior a conventional thin wall which lightened up the back end considerably. I had him retain the the thick wall connecting ferrules and he added a beautiful thin strip of rolled brass branch guard that follows the contour of the tuning slide crook. Each end of the branch guard, just above the connecting ferrules, he shaped into an arrowhead. Beautiful!

Roy is the man, no doubt about it. For those of us that have met him you know what I mean. I call him the gentle giant. He is a big man, think NFL linebacker. He is soft spoken, patient, and, well, gentle. It shows in the build quality and superb playability of his horns. There is no bad juju in Roy's final product. Only goodness!



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Scott Bentall-Freelance
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Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
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« Reply #160 on: Feb 21, 2017, 07:09AM »

Does Roy have a horn that is along the line of the classic 8" bell 6H?

 Yes. I'm not sure what Roy would suggest but here is what I would do. An LB1-2 (.022) yellow brass stem with an 8" .022 yellow brass flare with a conventional round bead, soldered, no rim wire. Yellow brass tuning slide crook and inners, yellow brass neck pipe. A .500 yellow brass hand slide with a nickel crook. That should do it.

Another choice would be to have the flare made using his method. The rim rolled flat back onto itself and soldered.
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Scott Bentall-Freelance
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Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
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« Reply #161 on: Feb 21, 2017, 11:39AM »

I wish you took pics Scott I want to see your horn! wow!

Also today I put my older Big Boy bell section on my .500 slide...perfect fit.

8.5 inch yellow brass bell on this yellow brass slide is INSANE...gonna gig on it tonight. Might have to keep the .525 lawler in the arsenal just in case...
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« Reply #162 on: Feb 21, 2017, 12:49PM »

I wish you took pics Scott I want to see your horn! wow!

Also today I put my older Big Boy bell section on my .500 slide...perfect fit.

8.5 inch yellow brass bell on this yellow brass slide is INSANE...gonna gig on it tonight. Might have to keep the .525 lawler in the arsenal just in case...
===

That's very cool, man. A .525 is in the pipeline utilizing this latest (newest) design of his along with some other things that I will not reveal until the prototype is in my hands for assessment.

I'm an old schooler in just about every aspect of my life, except this dang computer, so digital pics are not something I do. Such is life.

----
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Scott Bentall-Freelance
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Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
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1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
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« Reply #163 on: Feb 21, 2017, 12:51PM »

Thanks for the replies! This is what Roy said:

Slide: LS5N .500 bore nickel slide, brass end bow.
Bell stem: LB1-2 yellow brass .020 thick yellow brass neck pipe.
Flare: .020 yellow 8 inch round soldered bead
Extra Flare: red brass 7 3/4 inch .025

It seems to be a fairly light setup, aside from the extra flare. Do you think it would still hold together well at volume?

My normal setup is very similar to that (.020 all yellow brass bell stem / tuning slide / gooseneck; .022 7 3/4 red brass flare; .500 nickel slide w/ brass bow) and I have no problems being heard.

I'll parrot everything that Ray, Scott and others have said about Roy and his work. I've picked up my 3B Silversonic exactly twice since August. While I will always have a soft spot for that horn and still enjoy playing it, my Lawler horn is just a much better horn and better for me in how I play. I don't work anywhere near as hard as I used to, and that for me translates to playing more of what I want to play without fighting a horn. I encourage anyone considering taking a trip to visit him and play his horns there with him listening to do so.
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« Reply #164 on: Feb 21, 2017, 12:58PM »

That's very cool, man. A .525 is in the pipeline utilizing this latest (newest) design of his along with some other things that I will not reveal until the prototype is in my hands for assessment.

That's good news Scott. Will look forward to seeing what comes about in the coming months.
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« Reply #165 on: Feb 22, 2017, 12:09PM »

This thread inspired me to reach out to Roy again yesterday, as its almost been one year since I received my horn from him.  He's going to loop me into some play testing for the new things as well.

I've been playing the 15 lead pipe...but recently felt like I needed a bit more resistance and have gravitated to the 5 lead pipe and I'm really into it.

I also needed to blast some low E-Flats on a recording session last night...pulled the tuning slide alllll the way out and it sounded SO GOOD.

Other modern makers I've worked with made me horns that wouldn't even sound in tune if I pulled the tuning slide all the way out or all the way in.  His horn is so in tune.

I'll always love my vintage horns, but this horn really is, to me, the modern day answer.
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« Reply #166 on: Feb 23, 2017, 07:07AM »

When I do slur's I feel like a cello player doing that technique they use in the horror films.
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« Reply #167 on: Feb 23, 2017, 07:57AM »


I'll always love my vintage horns, but this horn really is, to me, the modern day answer.
===

Me too. Right again!

----
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Scott Bentall-Freelance
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Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
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« Reply #168 on: Feb 23, 2017, 08:37AM »


I've been playing the 15 lead pipe...but recently felt like I needed a bit more resistance and have gravitated to the 5 lead pipe and I'm really into it.



Can those of you who have played the horns speak to the leadpipes a bit more?  Materials, sizes, blowing characteristics, etc.? 

I'm just curious.  I understand fully the value of trying them myself, but I want to hear others' opinions! 
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« Reply #169 on: Feb 23, 2017, 01:56PM »

Can those of you who have played the horns speak to the leadpipes a bit more?  Materials, sizes, blowing characteristics, etc.? 

I'm just curious.  I understand fully the value of trying them myself, but I want to hear others' opinions! 
===

Venturi sizes are .405-.410-.415. They are either two piece like a King which is Roy's standard or one piece which is what he made for me because that is what I prefer.
                              #5   #10  #15

They are all brass, 7-5/16" in length and as far as I know have the same taper. For the longest time I played a #15 but needed more room so I play a Kanstul W6 and am very happy with that set up. Roy's pipes are nice but I found the overall volume that I can achieve with the Kanstul to be greater. Roy's pipes do respond a tad quicker than the Kanstul, but the immediacy of his horn's design is superb to begin with, so I'm fine with the Kanstul W6.

I find his pipes to have a very pointed feel to the attack and the sound too, but that decreases somewhat as you go up in size from #5 to # 10 to #15.

I hope this helps.

===
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Scott Bentall-Freelance
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Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
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« Reply #170 on: Feb 23, 2017, 03:44PM »

That is excellent info; thank you! Is your Kanstul pipe press fit?
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« Reply #171 on: Feb 23, 2017, 03:48PM »

That is excellent info; thank you! Is your Kanstul pipe press fit?
----

Kanstul is pressfit as are the Lawler pipes.

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« Reply #172 on: Feb 23, 2017, 06:42PM »

Leadpipes match different with different bells. My red brass 7 3/4 is super nice on the 10 lead pipe. The 8 inch bronze with the W6 Kanstul.  Pant Pant Pant
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« Reply #173 on: Feb 24, 2017, 10:48AM »

Hi, first-time poster but (very) long-time player here (playing professionally for 40 years...)

I ordered a horn from Roy Lawler first week of January. He was wrapping up his final trumpet orders so lead time was longer than normal.

My last long-term horn was a Rath R3 .525 with nickel silver bell that I played for about 10 years. Fantastic horn (which I'll be selling here if I love the Lawler), but too big for the musical context I mostly play in now. For that reason for the last year I've been playing  my old Bach 12 I bought new in 1975 - great horn though hoping I like the Lawler better.

After taking to Roy for well over an hour, at his recommendation I ordered  a .22 red brass stem, .500 nickel outer slide with brass bow, a 7.5" .22 red brass flare, and a 7.75" .25 yellow brass flare.

I sure hope I love it, but these things already impress me:

   - I can return it for full refund.

   - The cost is a good $1,000 less than a small-bore horn from Shires or Rath etc. And this includes 2 flares, and 2 cases! (He was throwing in both the flat hard case and the gig bag when I ordered) This is a remarkable value. Between that and the time he takes consulting with you over the materials choices, it gives the impression that he is in it for love and not the money.

   - it's a one-man shop

Needless to say, I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on this! Should be within the next few weeks...
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« Reply #174 on: Feb 24, 2017, 01:40PM »

Hi, first-time poster but (very) long-time player here (playing professionally for 40 years...)

I ordered a horn from Roy Lawler first week of January. He was wrapping up his final trumpet orders so lead time was longer than normal.

My last long-term horn was a Rath R3 .525 with nickel silver bell that I played for about 10 years. Fantastic horn (which I'll be selling here if I love the Lawler), but too big for the musical context I mostly play in now. For that reason for the last year I've been playing  my old Bach 12 I bought new in 1975 - great horn though hoping I like the Lawler better.

After taking to Roy for well over an hour, at his recommendation I ordered  a .22 red brass stem, .500 nickel outer slide with brass bow, a 7.5" .22 red brass flare, and a 7.75" .25 yellow brass flare.

I sure hope I love it, but these things already impress me:

   - I can return it for full refund.

   - The cost is a good $1,000 less than a small-bore horn from Shires or Rath etc. And this includes 2 flares, and 2 cases! (He was throwing in both the flat hard case and the gig bag when I ordered) This is a remarkable value. Between that and the time he takes consulting with you over the materials choices, it gives the impression that he is in it for love and not the money.

   - it's a one-man shop

Needless to say, I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on this! Should be within the next few weeks...
===

Nice! I hope you love it too. It will be very different from your Bach. Please take the time to adjust to the blow. I suggest easing off a bit. Yes, Roy loves what he is doing and is as fair a man as you will ever come across.

----
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« Reply #175 on: Mar 11, 2017, 12:13PM »

Leadpipes match different with different bells. My red brass 7 3/4 is super nice on the 10 lead pipe. The 8 inch bronze with the W6 Kanstul.  Pant Pant Pant
The 10 just works overall the best for me actually, both flares...
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« Reply #176 on: May 11, 2017, 10:38AM »

I thought I would check in on this thread to share my experiences so far... I posted earlier about my Lawler - received late Sept 2016 (85/15 .25 stem, .500 all nickel slide, .22 7.75" red bell, .25 8" yellow bell, .25 8" bronze bell - all soldered rounded bead)

I initially had some difficulty finding the right balance of mouthpiece and leadpipe - and after MANY different trials I think I have found the best solution that works for me.

Mouthpiece - I am now using several Doug Elliott configurations, and they ALL seem to work really well with the Lawler depending on the playing situation:
  • LT100/C+/D3 (most used)
  • LT100/D/D3
  • LT100/C/C3

Leadpipe - after trying several options, I have settled on the Kanstul H6. I also like the W6, but I am finding the best results for me with the H6. Roy's pipes are good as well - I have a #5 and #10.

The more I play, the more I appreciate the flexibility of intervals and the stability of pitch and intonation. My attacks feel more secure at all dynamics - bigger "targets" it seems to me. I feel much more at ease working through the middle to upper registers - much smoother for me without the "wall" I always fight on my Bach 16 (a good playing Bach except for the obstinate upper register at times.) I like all three bells in different situations - I love the options! I'm still experimenting with all three to see what I prefer for different situations.

The slide has been great! Relatively short break-in time - and I did lots of careful cleaning at first - it now has the best action of any slide I have ever used. Trombotine (very lightly applied) has given me the best results so far.

One question/issue for others with a current Lawler - do you find the distance between the slide and bell (especially with an 8" flare) closer than other instruments you play? I had to adjust my right hand position somewhat to avoid bumping the bell as I play - I've adjusted now and it only happens rarely.

Also - Roy has posted his recommended set-up on his website - he endorses an all yellow brass configuration there. I'm very happy with my current set-up... but I was just curious if others have come across this on his site.

Steve
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« Reply #177 on: May 11, 2017, 12:42PM »

To those of you who own or have tried the Lawler small bores, which combination of parts most matches the sound and feel of a vintage 6H, not the heavy belled '50's version but the lighter weight ones  from the '60''s..... I don't mean the specs but how they play?....
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« Reply #178 on: May 12, 2017, 06:20AM »

To those of you who own or have tried the Lawler small bores, which combination of parts most matches the sound and feel of a vintage 6H, not the heavy belled '50's version but the lighter weight ones  from the '60''s..... I don't mean the specs but how they play?....
===

See my reply #160. Same stuff but with an .020 yellow brass bell. You can get close to the sound and feel of a vintage 6H, but obviously, it's a Lawler and has it's own characteristics that I much prefer over any 6H I have ever played.

----
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No pressure=No sound=No gigs
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Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
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« Reply #179 on: May 12, 2017, 06:24AM »

I thought I would check in on this thread to share my experiences so far... I posted earlier about my Lawler - received late Sept 2016 (85/15 .25 stem, .500 all nickel slide, .22 7.75" red bell, .25 8" yellow bell, .25 8" bronze bell - all soldered rounded bead)

I initially had some difficulty finding the right balance of mouthpiece and leadpipe - and after MANY different trials I think I have found the best solution that works for me.

Mouthpiece - I am now using several Doug Elliott configurations, and they ALL seem to work really well with the Lawler depending on the playing situation:
  • LT100/C+/D3 (most used)
  • LT100/D/D3
  • LT100/C/C3

Leadpipe - after trying several options, I have settled on the Kanstul H6. I also like the W6, but I am finding the best results for me with the H6. Roy's pipes are good as well - I have a #5 and #10.

The more I play, the more I appreciate the flexibility of intervals and the stability of pitch and intonation. My attacks feel more secure at all dynamics - bigger "targets" it seems to me. I feel much more at ease working through the middle to upper registers - much smoother for me without the "wall" I always fight on my Bach 16 (a good playing Bach except for the obstinate upper register at times.) I like all three bells in different situations - I love the options! I'm still experimenting with all three to see what I prefer for different situations.

The slide has been great! Relatively short break-in time - and I did lots of careful cleaning at first - it now has the best action of any slide I have ever used. Trombotine (very lightly applied) has given me the best results so far.

One question/issue for others with a current Lawler - do you find the distance between the slide and bell (especially with an 8" flare) closer than other instruments you play? I had to adjust my right hand position somewhat to avoid bumping the bell as I play - I've adjusted now and it only happens rarely.

Also - Roy has posted his recommended set-up on his website - he endorses an all yellow brass configuration there. I'm very happy with my current set-up... but I was just curious if others have come across this on his site.

Steve
----

Nice report, thanks. I don't have an 8" bell flare so I can't speak to the bumping the bell situation you speak of. But you've adjusted, so...

===
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Scott Bentall-Freelance
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Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
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« Reply #180 on: May 12, 2017, 07:58AM »

I definitely have noticed the distance thing with the 8 inch bell - Really only when I need to trim my fingernails!  :-P

Right now, I'm favoring the 8 in. bronze bell, believe it or not.  I did a 5-month cruise contract (December 7 to April 30), and only brought my 8 in yellow .022 and unsoldered 7.5 yellow .022 flares.  After getting adjusted to the horn, I found those to be a little light in the end. BUT, I only discovered this after I got home to my bronze flare (which was the one I settled on when I went to Roy's shop - funny how that works, eh?).  Anyway, I've also picked up a Kanstul 'S' leadpipe, which is working VERY well, though I'm still swapping off with the H6.  I'm on another cruise gig now (Queen Mary 2 dance band) and I'm quite happy with my current setup (.025 all yellow stem section with 8 in. .025 bronze flare, all nickel .500 slide, Kanstul S & H6 leadipes and a very early Bach New York 11C mouthpiece). I might have Roy put a brass crook on my slide this summer. I mentioned earlier in this thread when I first visited the shop that I found the vibrato to be more pronounced on the brass than the nickel. I think that'd be a good tweak for me.

I'm hoping to meet up soon with Alex Jeun, another Lawler player from NYC, to have a little Lawler party.  I'd like to try his all-brass slide to see if that might be a direction I want to go. He's ordered a carbon fibre outer slide from Butler as well! Who knows? Might do that too....  Don't know

All in all, I have been thrilled with my horn.  Simply put, I can do things on it that I haven't been able to do on my other horns.  Adjusting to it has taught me to be a more efficient player while at the same time giving me an added level of confidence that what is coming out of the bell is more & more musical.   

Oh, and P.S.  I sent my unsoldered-rim 7.5 yellow .022 to Kanstul for silver plating. Mostly just for kicks, but I think it'll be a nice, zingy contrast to the others I have. And I betcha it'll look cool, too!  Good!
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« Reply #181 on: May 12, 2017, 08:48AM »


---snip---


Dave...

When you're going to meet Alex, let me know. I work with him a lot and he sounds even better now that he's playing the Lawler. I am interested in the horns. We work together but I have never had a chance to actually play his Lawler stuff because I don't like to confuse my chops on a gig. I'd like to join you.

Later...

Sam

P.S. Alex has all of my contact info.
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« Reply #182 on: May 12, 2017, 03:49PM »

When you're going to meet Alex, let me know. I work with him a lot and he sounds even better now that he's playing the Lawler. I am interested in the horns. We work together but I have never had a chance to actually play his Lawler stuff because I don't like to confuse my chops on a gig. I'd like to join you.
I'm doing the Southampton - New York run on the Queen Mary 2, and I have just a few visits to NY.  We'll be at Red Hook, Brooklyn on Monday, but we have a coast guard inspection/drill and my shore time will be very limited. I'm looking at having Alex visit on Wed. May 31st aboard the ship.  I won't be able to get off the ship that day (port manning duty), but I can have up to four visitors. You can eat for free, and we should be able to get a nice big room to play in. Get in touch with Alex -- I'll need passport info and address, but you can pool that with Alex.
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« Reply #183 on: May 13, 2017, 06:13AM »



We work together but I have never had a chance to actually play his Lawler stuff because I don't like to confuse my chops on a gig. I'd like to join you.

Later...

Sam



That made me laugh. As great a player as you are Sam, I find it hard to believe that your chops would get confused! Seriously though, I know what you mean, but I suspect they'd be delightfully confused, if only for a while. ;-)
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Scott Bentall-Freelance
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Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
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« Reply #184 on: May 13, 2017, 09:48AM »

That made me laugh. As great a player as you are Sam, I find it hard to believe that your chops would get confused! Seriously though, I know what you mean, but I suspect they'd be delightfully confused, if only for a while. ;-)

You have no idea...

It's the doubling thing, I think. I play so many rims on a regular basis...from 12C right on down to large tuba...that unless I am playing the same m'pce and performing the same general function (Idiomatically and in terms of volumes and ranges) day after day after day, whatever my balance may be on a gig can be drastically confused by messing around with other m'pces. I save that for the occasional no-pressure rehearsal and of course practicing at home.

So it goes...

S.
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« Reply #185 on: May 15, 2017, 11:35AM »

One question/issue for others with a current Lawler - do you find the distance between the slide and bell (especially with an 8" flare) closer than other instruments you play? I had to adjust my right hand position somewhat to avoid bumping the bell as I play - I've adjusted now and it only happens rarely.

Also - Roy has posted his recommended set-up on his website - he endorses an all yellow brass configuration there. I'm very happy with my current set-up... but I was just curious if others have come across this on his site.

Regarding the distance from the bell and slide - yes - I had to learn to adjust my right hand grip ever so slightly. I figured he uses the smaller flares when measuring the gap between the flare rim and slide. Not a big deal really, just something to get used to.

And as far as the all brass setup, I liked it for the complete bell section over having a nickel gooseneck. Something about it spoke more for me than the other.
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« Reply #186 on: May 15, 2017, 03:32PM »

Talked to Alex last week too...I still have my Lawler which I love, but I've been rocking the Wayne Andre conn 6H bell I have with a new Butler carbon fiber slide and the Lawler 15 leadpipe...maybe everyone can try everything out! Think I'll be home May 31st if you end up having an extra visitor slot.

I'm touring with a pop country band out of Nashville this summer so hoping to take a few trips to Roy's shop and try out some new stuff...I really want him to put an f Attachment on a .508 horn for me.... ;-))))

-Ray

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« Reply #187 on: May 16, 2017, 04:57AM »

One minor question - what number is stamped on the bottom of your slide hand grip? Mine is 16.

Not sure what the significance is for this number?

Just curious...
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« Reply #188 on: May 16, 2017, 08:16AM »

I'm touring with a pop country band out of Nashville this summer so hoping to take a few trips to Roy's shop and try out some new stuff...I really want him to put an f Attachment on a .508 horn for me.... ;-))))

Hoping for a .525 with an F attachment myself. Even requested it to Roy and all that was said was that he was looking into it. Would love to see that come to fruition one day.
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« Reply #189 on: May 16, 2017, 02:52PM »

Hoping for a .525 with an F attachment myself. Even requested it to Roy and all that was said was that he was looking into it. Would love to see that come to fruition one day.
===

It will. Hang in there.

----
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Scott Bentall-Freelance
No pressure=No sound=No gigs
---------------------------------------------
Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
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« Reply #190 on: May 16, 2017, 02:54PM »

One minor question - what number is stamped on the bottom of your slide hand grip? Mine is 16.

Not sure what the significance is for this number?

Just curious...
-----

Mine is stamped 16 too. I don't know what it means. Probably a parts numbering system that Roy uses.

====
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Scott Bentall-Freelance
No pressure=No sound=No gigs
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Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
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« Reply #191 on: May 16, 2017, 04:34PM »

Mine is also stamped '16'  Don't know I started to think maybe it stands for the year it was built, but didn't you get yours in 2015, Scott?

I switched to the gold 7 3/4 for one set last night.  No go.  Went back to the bronze.  It sounds killer with the tenor sax player next to me. Gutsy & punchy, yet smooth and creamy when I need it to be.
I'm sticking mostly with the Kanstul S pipe as well.  I need to try the W6 at some point.  Apparently it's the same size venturi, just a different placement. (Maybe a different length, too?). I do find some leadpipes (including the S)  difficult to get in and out of the slide. I use a wrench, and it's eating up the knurling on the ring.

Ray, I should be able to get you on the ship on the 31st. Talk to Alex about it - He knows what information I need to put in the request.  I'll need that by the 27th at the very latest.  I can't guarantee 100% we'll have an open room the whole time, but we should be able to find a spot. It's one thing to have a chat, it's another thing to have three or four strong trombone players all going to town at once!
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« Reply #192 on: May 17, 2017, 12:12PM »

Mine is also stamped '16'  Don't know I started to think maybe it stands for the year it was built, but didn't you get yours in 2015, Scott?

I switched to the gold 7 3/4 for one set last night.  No go.  Went back to the bronze.  It sounds killer with the tenor sax player next to me. Gutsy & punchy, yet smooth and creamy when I need it to be.
I'm sticking mostly with the Kanstul S pipe as well.  I need to try the W6 at some point.  Apparently it's the same size venturi, just a different placement. (Maybe a different length, too?). I do find some leadpipes (including the S)  difficult to get in and out of the slide. I use a wrench, and it's eating up the knurling on the ring.

-------

He already uses a date stamp for the serial number so I kind of doubt it, but I'll ask him next time I speak with him. I used the "S" pipe in my Kanstul 1606 until I tried the "H6" and that's what I use in it all of the time, though I rarely play the Kanstul anymore. Both the "S" and "H6" were too tight for me in my Lawler so that's how I settled on the "W6" and am very satisfied with that set-up. And yes, the "W6" is a tad shorter than the "S".

I also sent my huge collection of leadpipes to Merlin Grady, repairman extraordinaire, and had him straighten all of them on the lathe. It makes a difference, because there is no chance of torquing the tube and throwing the alignment off. I'd suggest removing a bit of material so the pipe isn't so tight.

=====
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Scott Bentall-Freelance
No pressure=No sound=No gigs
---------------------------------------------
Lawler .500 bore
Kanstul 1606 (prototype)
Williams 6 (Bob)
1935 Williams "L" Arrowhead
Conn 71H
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