Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1080563 Posts in 71520 Topics- by 19056 Members - Latest Member: Coleman25
Jump to:  
Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: 1957 King 3b - Questions  (Read 3283 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Bret Steed

*
Offline Offline

Location: Oklahoma
Joined: Jul 12, 2007
Posts: 683

View Profile WWW
« on: Nov 21, 2015, 01:49PM »

Hey Guys Good!

I've got a 1957 King 3b in beautiful condition, but there are some issues with it....

I love the way it sounds, but it's SOOOO inconsistent!  The intonation is squirrelly and changes every time I play.  I can literally play a figure, rest a couple of bars, and play the same figure, but the horn demands different slide positions because the intonation changes.  I don't have this issue on any of my other horns.

Also, it seems to blow a bit tight.  All in all, top to bottom, the horn is just squirrelly as heck... I can't lock anything in Confused  I've played the horn for a solid week now...

Would a Kanstul H8 lead pipe remedy this issue?  I would like to keep this horn, but if I can't find a simple solution, she'll have to go!
Logged

Xo 1632
Xo 1236
Xo Brass Artist and Clinician
http://bretsteed.com/
Take a listen to my new album! https://soundcloud.com/bret-steed/sets/bring-it
lmalewic
*
Offline Offline

Location: Chicago
Joined: Feb 13, 2008
Posts: 240
"Resonance"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #1 on: Nov 21, 2015, 02:30PM »

Bret,
If the horn has an old style one piece leadpipe in it then it might be the source of the issues. The new two piece pipes are much much better. You can get a tech to replace the pipe with a new one and that should make a world of difference. When I first purchased mine from DJ it blew very tight but sounded great. After replacing the leadpipe it sounded even better and was much more open. I ordered a H8 pipe just to see if I can open it up a little more but now I have a feeling I don't need to do that. Once the pipe comes in next week I can try it out and report back.
Logged

Chicago Freelance Jazz Trombonist
www.LukeMalewicz.com
Matt K

*
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: May 6, 2010
Posts: 7029

View Profile
« Reply #2 on: Nov 21, 2015, 02:38PM »

Shires 2 also works really well. I had one in my 3b that I recently sold.

Also, I had a really squirrelly 3b silver sonic. Turned out the tuning slide and the handslide were leaking air badly. After taking them to get that fixed they worked well in some ways is still had that horn. It wasn't the horn for me then but it probably would work for me now.
Logged

What's in a name? that which we call a tenor-bass posaune
By any other name would smell as sweet;
Bret Steed

*
Offline Offline

Location: Oklahoma
Joined: Jul 12, 2007
Posts: 683

View Profile WWW
« Reply #3 on: Nov 22, 2015, 11:33AM »

I'm going to take the 3b to my tech tomorrow and have the leadpipe pulled... Hopefully this will awaken the beast!

Also, this 3b has the long tuning slide bow... Could this also contribute to the quirkiness???
Logged

Xo 1632
Xo 1236
Xo Brass Artist and Clinician
http://bretsteed.com/
Take a listen to my new album! https://soundcloud.com/bret-steed/sets/bring-it
Bret Steed

*
Offline Offline

Location: Oklahoma
Joined: Jul 12, 2007
Posts: 683

View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: Nov 22, 2015, 11:39AM »

Also, I have access to ALL of the Kanstul .500 bore pipes... When I get my 3b pipe pulled, does anyone know if the .500 pipes will fit?? I'm going to eventually get an H8 pipe.
Logged

Xo 1632
Xo 1236
Xo Brass Artist and Clinician
http://bretsteed.com/
Take a listen to my new album! https://soundcloud.com/bret-steed/sets/bring-it
Matt K

*
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: May 6, 2010
Posts: 7029

View Profile
« Reply #5 on: Nov 22, 2015, 01:54PM »

You can fit smaller sized pipes in larger pipes, sure. Whether or not they'll work is a different story.  I have a 485 Shires pipe in my Conn 36, which is 491 bore.  Newell Sheridan rammed a mouthpiece shank down the end of it until it flared it out to fit nicely in the Conn 36.   Eeek! Eeek! Eeek! Good thing it plays as well as it does  ;-)
Logged

What's in a name? that which we call a tenor-bass posaune
By any other name would smell as sweet;
lmalewic
*
Offline Offline

Location: Chicago
Joined: Feb 13, 2008
Posts: 240
"Resonance"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #6 on: Nov 22, 2015, 02:43PM »

I tried a shires 2 pipe in my 3B and it was way too open. Didn't line up with the rest of the horn. I could literally feel where the leadpipe ended and the rest of the horn begun. Maybe it was just my 3B but who knows.
Logged

Chicago Freelance Jazz Trombonist
www.LukeMalewicz.com
davetrombizzle

*
Offline Offline

Location: NC, USA
Joined: Jun 4, 2006
Posts: 604

View Profile
« Reply #7 on: Nov 22, 2015, 04:42PM »

You can put a .5" leadpipe in a .508" slide, but it's probably not going to blow right.

Bret, I have a 3B that played exactly as you described. I had the leadpipe pulled about 8 years ago, switched to a Kanstul H8, and I have never looked back. It makes the horn play solid and consistently. It's almost funny at first, but when you get used to it, you'll be glad you did.
Logged
MikeBMiller
Best trombone player on my street.
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Sep 18, 2009
Posts: 1068

View Profile
« Reply #8 on: Nov 23, 2015, 05:57AM »

Do you guys think a new lead pipe would help with a modern (2 years old) 3B? I have no complaints about the horn as is, but it might be nice to have some different options.
Logged
lmalewic
*
Offline Offline

Location: Chicago
Joined: Feb 13, 2008
Posts: 240
"Resonance"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #9 on: Nov 23, 2015, 08:22AM »

I would leave it as is. The worst thing you can do is mess with a horn that plays well just to try something different. If you like it as is I would leave it that way.
Logged

Chicago Freelance Jazz Trombonist
www.LukeMalewicz.com
Bret Steed

*
Offline Offline

Location: Oklahoma
Joined: Jul 12, 2007
Posts: 683

View Profile WWW
« Reply #10 on: Nov 23, 2015, 11:40AM »

Took the 3b to my tech this morning to have the lead pipe pulled... I also ordered a nickel silver Kanstul H8 pipe.  The 3b should be ready to play around this time next week.

I'll give you guys an update on how she plays when every things done Good!
Logged

Xo 1632
Xo 1236
Xo Brass Artist and Clinician
http://bretsteed.com/
Take a listen to my new album! https://soundcloud.com/bret-steed/sets/bring-it
bassclef

*
Offline Offline

Location: Massillon, OH
Joined: Dec 2, 2002
Posts: 771

View Profile
« Reply #11 on: Nov 23, 2015, 12:41PM »

Took the 3b to my tech this morning to have the lead pipe pulled... I also ordered a nickel silver Kanstul H8 pipe.  The 3b should be ready to play around this time next week.

I'll give you guys an update on how she plays when every things done Good!
I'm looking forward to hearing how this turns out.

I have a 1961 3B and I have experienced exactly the same things you describe above. Mine also has the 1-piece leadpipe.
Logged

Aaron Thornberry
Bass & Tenor Trombonist
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram
lmalewic
*
Offline Offline

Location: Chicago
Joined: Feb 13, 2008
Posts: 240
"Resonance"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #12 on: Nov 24, 2015, 07:02AM »

Also curious about the nickel pipe. I only ordered the standard brass one.
Logged

Chicago Freelance Jazz Trombonist
www.LukeMalewicz.com
RichEKelly
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: May 4, 2010
Posts: 107

View Profile
« Reply #13 on: Nov 24, 2015, 11:18AM »

I would leave it as is. The worst thing you can do is mess with a horn that plays well just to try something different. If you like it as is I would leave it that way.
I'm not sure I agree with leaving it as is. Sure it'probably a great horn, but maybe it could be even better (better suited to you). Pulling the leadpipe and putting a collar on it wouldn't be much of a risk in changing the sound. And I bet there is a better than 50/50 chance that some other pipe will work just a bit better for you. I'm guessing you dont have the same feelings abut swapping out the original mouthpiece that came with the horn.
Logged
Exzaclee

*
Offline Offline

Location: Edmond, OK
Joined: Mar 8, 2008
Posts: 6543
"Check out my new website!"


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: Nov 24, 2015, 12:21PM »

Hey bret, if you pull the pipe and decide you don't want it, let me know i may wanna buy it.

You can try those 500 pipes i have in the office, but i imagine they may be a bit loose for a fit although there is a 6h pipe in there that was too tight for that slide - it may actually be a 508 pipe.

I think i have some plumber's tape somewhere if you want to try a layer of that to make the fit better.

I tried a 3B with a H8 pipe a while back - i can't remember who i sold that horn to.
Logged

Music is my mistress, and she plays second fiddle to no one!
www.zacleemusic.com
Bret Steed

*
Offline Offline

Location: Oklahoma
Joined: Jul 12, 2007
Posts: 683

View Profile WWW
« Reply #15 on: Nov 24, 2015, 01:45PM »

Zac,

Sure thing! Those .500 Kanstul pipes I referred to above are yours  Evil
Logged

Xo 1632
Xo 1236
Xo Brass Artist and Clinician
http://bretsteed.com/
Take a listen to my new album! https://soundcloud.com/bret-steed/sets/bring-it
lmalewic
*
Offline Offline

Location: Chicago
Joined: Feb 13, 2008
Posts: 240
"Resonance"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #16 on: Nov 24, 2015, 03:04PM »

I'm not sure I agree with leaving it as is. Sure it'probably a great horn, but maybe it could be even better (better suited to you). Pulling the leadpipe and putting a collar on it wouldn't be much of a risk in changing the sound. And I bet there is a better than 50/50 chance that some other pipe will work just a bit better for you. I'm guessing you dont have the same feelings abut swapping out the original mouthpiece that came with the horn.

I am basing my answer on the fact that Mike said he has no complaints about the horn. If you are looking for something specific then it's a different story. If you have issues with the horn as it is then again maybe changing something small might be the way to go. If the horn plays well and you like everything about it, it is a dangerous game to start changing things around. The only reason I had my leadpipe pulled and will be trying a Kanstul H8 is because the upper tube has to be replaced and the leadpipe had to be pulled anyway. If the tube was fine I would not have pulled the leadpipe out. This is just my opinion based on my personal experiences. Every time you heat up a horn or parts of it there is a chance that something might change. Although it is a small chance especially on a newer horn it is still a gamble.
Logged

Chicago Freelance Jazz Trombonist
www.LukeMalewicz.com
RichEKelly
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: May 4, 2010
Posts: 107

View Profile
« Reply #17 on: Nov 24, 2015, 04:14PM »

I would leave it as is. The worst thing you can do is mess with a horn that plays well just to try something different. If you like it as is I would leave it that way.
Sorrry, I thought you were replying to the OP, who did state he was having some issues with his horn.
Logged
lmalewic
*
Offline Offline

Location: Chicago
Joined: Feb 13, 2008
Posts: 240
"Resonance"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #18 on: Nov 24, 2015, 05:04PM »

Oh sorry. I should have made that clear. Yeah, I wasn't talking about the original post.
Logged

Chicago Freelance Jazz Trombonist
www.LukeMalewicz.com
barking

*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Sep 5, 2015
Posts: 97

View Profile
« Reply #19 on: Dec 06, 2015, 02:13AM »

what was the outcome of the lead pipe change ?? has anyone done this to a silversonic?? please tell me how to identify a 1 piece as opposed to a 2 piece. thanks
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Up
Print
Jump to: