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Author Topic: Large Bore King  (Read 1207 times)
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RichEKelly
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« on: Jan 26, 2016, 07:43AM »

So I'm looking to pick up a King 4B trombone for use in a community orchestra.  I mostly play a King small bores in jazz band/community band, and small group settings.  Does anyone have first hand insight into the differences between the King 4B and the 5B.  If I understand correctly they are both .457 horns. Technical data as well as personal/tonal differences appreciated.

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BGuttman
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« Reply #1 on: Jan 26, 2016, 08:28AM »

I owned a 4B and a 5B at the same time.

The 5B has a larger bell and bell taper.  It sounded more diffuse than the 4B.  Slides are interchangeable.  Both worked in orchestra, but I preferred the sound of the 4B.  Sold the 5B to somebody who really liked it.  Both of mine were silver plated and were a little bright.  The 4B became my favorite Concert Band horn until I sold it to a young lady who played it a lot better than I did (I had a Yamaha 682 that I liked even better for orchestra).

Good luck finding a 4B.  You'll have to buy used.
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Bruce Guttman
Solo Trombone, Hollis Town Band
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octavposaune

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« Reply #2 on: Jan 26, 2016, 08:43AM »

Bruce King still makes 4Bs but not 5Bs or Basses.

http://www.conn-selmer.com/en-us/our-instruments/band-instruments/trombones/

Benn
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BillO
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« Reply #3 on: Jan 26, 2016, 09:22AM »

I have owned two 4Bs over time.  The first had an "F" attachment.  I've not really played a 5B (or 1480 or be exact) since I bought that 4BF when I was a kid.  I had only been playing for 3 years at the time and the 1480 had a .536 bore as opposed to the 4BF with a .547.  I do remember I chose the 4BF mostly because I found it easier to play.  Better range, more stability and such, but 40 year old memories have a habit of drifting.  In any case I chose the 4B.  The more recent 5B is a lot different than the 1480 version.  Different bore, different tuning slide, different Bell, different goose neck.  I've only really had a short toot on one a couple of years ago, and I still prefer the sound of the 4B.  Both of them had larger bells than the 4B, both in the throat on the bell diameter.

The 4B has a nice rich sound that's a little darker than you might expect.  Lower and very high harmonics are more prominent than those the middle.  It responds well to mouthpiece cup depth for coloring the sound. Deep cups cut down on those higher harmonics giving it a much more orchestral and mellow sound.  Shallow cups have the opposite effect.  Dynamics too shape the sound a lot.  You can get a lot of zing out of it at higher volumes if you want.

The 4B has the added benefit of still being available new too, and that means you can find used ones with very little mileage on them and you can go to a store and play one.
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dj kennedy

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« Reply #4 on: Jan 26, 2016, 09:54AM »

benge 190//165      are pretty c;ose to 4b also
 
the pre 4b/5b [before 1960??????] are pretty interesting  too
 if you have a tech---i have  a wreck  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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lotsa  good used  available
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BassCase

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« Reply #5 on: Jan 26, 2016, 10:16AM »

FYI, there's currently a 4B on Ebay.  A Benge 165 just sold for 394.00 last night.  Best of luck. 
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tsmart

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« Reply #6 on: Jan 26, 2016, 11:53AM »

I sold a 4B several years ago - I wish I had kept.  :cry:
Great orchestra horns IMHO.
Only got $650 for it on ebay.  :cry:

T.
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RichEKelly
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« Reply #7 on: Jan 26, 2016, 12:19PM »

Thanks, I should have mentioned that I am looking at the older ones, with a trigger, specifically the vintage that has the thumb over the brace like my 3B.
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BillO
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« Reply #8 on: Jan 26, 2016, 12:53PM »

My 4BF was like that.  Bought in '72.  So was the 1480 I tried at the same time.

I think that first one, and the straight 4B  I have now (1980's vintage) sounded pretty much the same.  Not 100% sure, but if I had teh choice to day, I'd still choose the 4BF.
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Never look at the conductor. You just encourage them.

Have you noticed, some folk never stick around to help tidy up after practice?
BGuttman
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« Reply #9 on: Jan 26, 2016, 01:48PM »

Note that unlike the 3B, the 4B has a string linkage.  I like them, but some people don't.

Both my 4B and 5B were mid 1970s and had thumb over bell brace.  Even my 1980 King 7B has that.  In the i980s they switched to the system used by everybody else (except the Holton TR-150).
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Bruce Guttman
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BillO
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« Reply #10 on: Jan 26, 2016, 02:24PM »

Note that unlike the 3B, the 4B has a string linkage.  I like them, but some people don't.

I like them too.  Less to go wrong, less noise and less maintenance.
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Never look at the conductor. You just encourage them.

Have you noticed, some folk never stick around to help tidy up after practice?
DaveBb
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« Reply #11 on: Jan 26, 2016, 07:31PM »

See this old thread...

http://tromboneforum.org/index.php?topic=57338.5

and this one...


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gregs70

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« Reply #12 on: Jan 26, 2016, 08:13PM »

So I'm looking to pick up a King 4B trombone for use in a community orchestra.  I mostly play a King small bores in jazz band/community band, and small group settings.  Does anyone have first hand insight into the differences between the King 4B and the 5B.  If I understand correctly they are both .457 horns. Technical data as well as personal/tonal differences appreciated.



The 5Bs had .538 bore in the early 70s, switched to .547 later on.   If the valve tubing looks like a 4B, it is the later horn.   I played my 4B in community orchestras and bands.  Good horn for your purpose.  PM me if you would like me to scan the pics out of the King catalogs from the 70s - I can show you both versions of the 5B.
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I'm not a total idiot - there are still a few pieces missing!

King 3B-F, King 4B-F, Holton TR-180
RichEKelly
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« Reply #13 on: Feb 02, 2016, 06:53AM »

With the LT D8 shank Doug Elliot sent me, and the 4b on its way from TX, I should be good for Orchestra rehearsal on Saturday.
Thanks all for the input.
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gregs70

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« Reply #14 on: Feb 02, 2016, 05:39PM »

Got a PM from a member asking for scans of my King catalogs, but he didn't send an e-mail address to send them to and the PM replay feature is locking up on my computer.  Greenbean, (or anybody else) interested in a scan of 1971 and 1973 full color "Trombone Masterpieces" catalogs, price lists from 1972 and 1974 listing all King instruments, or a full color catalog of horns/tubas/euphoniums from 1972, just PM me with a return address.
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I'm not a total idiot - there are still a few pieces missing!

King 3B-F, King 4B-F, Holton TR-180
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