Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1097247 Posts in 72498 Topics- by 19558 Members - Latest Member: Shinbone021401
Jump to:  
Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Success removing 4047DS/4147IB leadpipes?  (Read 4797 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
ChadA
*
Offline Offline

Location: Ohio
Joined: Jul 16, 2010
Posts: 343

View Profile WWW
« on: Apr 18, 2016, 05:49PM »

Has anyone tried to remove the leadpipes on either of the Getzen custom reserve horns?  To the naked eye, it looks like they've just soldered a pipe into the normal Getzen/Edwards threaded connector.  Is it a simple matter of heating up the collar and unscrewing it?  I'd have a tech do it, of course.
Logged

Chad Arnow, DMA
Bass Trombone, Dayton Philharmonic Orchestra
Assistant Professor of Trombone, University of Dayton
http://chadarnow.com/
http://go.udayton.edu/music
Duffle
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Apr 7, 2005
Posts: 2905

View Profile
« Reply #1 on: Apr 20, 2016, 01:16AM »

It seems like an omission these days to design a new horn without removeable lead pipes. It's a relatively easy and inexpensive method of altering the feel of an instrument.......
Logged
Blowero

*
Offline Offline

Location: Southern California
Joined: Nov 1, 2006
Posts: 1799

View Profile WWW
« Reply #2 on: Apr 20, 2016, 02:07AM »

It seems like an omission these days to design a new horn without removeable lead pipes. It's a relatively easy and inexpensive method of altering the feel of an instrument.......
Looking at Getzen's literature on this, they are supposedly optimized instruments that were developed with specific goals in mind, so I'm assuming that altering it is not what they had in mind. You may not agree with it, but apparently that was what they were going for.
Logged

Brass repair, modifications, custom parts and instruments

http://brassmedic.com
daveyboy37

*
Offline Offline

Location: New Jersey, USA
Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 4425

View Profile
« Reply #3 on: Apr 20, 2016, 01:06PM »

Being "solid state" horns is part of the design, the same with the T-396A alessi model. These are "tribute horns" developed for a specific sound and goal. Having removable leadpipes I guess wasn't part of that goal.

They look to have the same cork barrels as the eterna series.
Logged

David Sullivan
Bass Trombone - Livingston Symphony Orchestra
Horns: Bach 39, King 3B, Yamaha YSL-640, Bach 42T, Kanstul 1570CR, Kanstul 1588CR, Yamaha YBL-612RII
MPCS: Faxx 7C, Hammond 11ML, Laskey 59MD, Laskey 85MD.
TromboneMonkey

*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Aug 16, 2009
Posts: 2401

View Profile
« Reply #4 on: Apr 20, 2016, 02:35PM »

Is there something that makes certain leadpipes harder or easier to remove than others?  Is it particularly risky to remove leadpipes of a certain design?  Can they be resoldered once removed?
Logged

-John
greenbean
*
Offline Offline

Location: California
Joined: Dec 26, 2012
Posts: 1615
"Brass Kahuna"


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: Apr 20, 2016, 02:52PM »

It should be straightforward.
Logged

Holton bass trombones...
Horn Builder

*
Offline Offline

Location: Jackson WI
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
Posts: 1687

View Profile
« Reply #6 on: Apr 20, 2016, 05:02PM »

There is a small "lip" around the top of the collars on these horns, so removing them using traditional methods isn't possible. It would actually be a fairly involved job to remove the pipe, and would probably involve remounting the entire top slide tube/cork barrel assembly.

FWIW...
M
Logged

Matthew Walker
Bass Trombonist, Opera Australia 1991-2006
Greenhoe Custom Trombones, Technician, Artist, Designer. 2006-2012
Getzen/Edwards Co Technician. 2013-2014
Freelance. May 2014-
Owner, M&W Custom Trombones. LLC. 2015-
greenbean
*
Offline Offline

Location: California
Joined: Dec 26, 2012
Posts: 1615
"Brass Kahuna"


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: Apr 20, 2016, 07:03PM »

There is a small "lip" around the top of the collars on these horns, so removing them using traditional methods isn't possible. It would actually be a fairly involved job to remove the pipe, and would probably involve remounting the entire top slide tube/cork barrel assembly.

FWIW...
M

A lip? Don't know  Never seen that.  Does that mean you couldn't slide the inner tube up through the top of the cork barrel?  It can only slide down? 
Logged

Holton bass trombones...
John Beers Jr.

*
Offline Offline

Location: Houston, TX
Joined: Dec 8, 2002
Posts: 3573

View Profile
« Reply #8 on: Apr 20, 2016, 07:24PM »

A lip? Don't know  Never seen that.  Does that mean you couldn't slide the inner tube up through the top of the cork barrel?  It can only slide down? 

The Olds Studio does the same thing. Leadpipe is mounted in the inner tube before the inner tube is mounted. At least in the Studio, the mouthpiece receiver is part of the cork barrel proper.

Not sure if that's the case for the 4047 models as well.

I agree that it's silly, though. Try a bunch of similar leadpipes (say Kanstul OL leadpipes) and no two will play exactly alike.

Then again, I've never met someone with a 396A who has so much as touched the harmonic pillars, because "Joe Alessi doesn't use them, and he sounds great". Perhaps it works the same way for 4047IB buyers and Bousfield.
Logged

"Progress is just another word for making bad things happen faster" - Granny Weatherwax
Horn Builder

*
Offline Offline

Location: Jackson WI
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
Posts: 1687

View Profile
« Reply #9 on: Apr 21, 2016, 05:05AM »

The lip I refer to is on the threaded collar that holds the leadpipe, and determines where the leadpipe sits inside the collar. The pipe is inserted through the underside of the collar, and is prevented from coming through the collar by the lip. So, simply removing the pipe, without removing the collar, is not possible. removing the collar from the cork barrel would be the "fun" part....

FWIW..
M
Logged

Matthew Walker
Bass Trombonist, Opera Australia 1991-2006
Greenhoe Custom Trombones, Technician, Artist, Designer. 2006-2012
Getzen/Edwards Co Technician. 2013-2014
Freelance. May 2014-
Owner, M&W Custom Trombones. LLC. 2015-
TromboneMonkey

*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Aug 16, 2009
Posts: 2401

View Profile
« Reply #10 on: Apr 21, 2016, 05:15AM »

Sounds like they really didn't want it removed...
Logged

-John
Matt K

*
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: May 6, 2010
Posts: 7427

View Profile
« Reply #11 on: Apr 21, 2016, 05:20AM »



 Evil
Logged

What's in a name? that which we call a tenor-bass posaune
By any other name would smell as sweet;
ChadA
*
Offline Offline

Location: Ohio
Joined: Jul 16, 2010
Posts: 343

View Profile WWW
« Reply #12 on: Apr 21, 2016, 06:09AM »

Thanks for the replies, folks.  See the picture below for what it looks like.  To my untrained eye, it looks just like the top of my Edwards slide, except you can see the solder and they haven't provided a grippy surface for unscrewing it.  I figured they simply had a threaded collar with no grippy surface, screwed it in, and soldered in place.  That would make assembly and parts like their other horns.  I could be wrong, though.





Logged

Chad Arnow, DMA
Bass Trombone, Dayton Philharmonic Orchestra
Assistant Professor of Trombone, University of Dayton
http://chadarnow.com/
http://go.udayton.edu/music
Matt K

*
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: May 6, 2010
Posts: 7427

View Profile
« Reply #13 on: Apr 21, 2016, 06:57AM »

It looks like the collar is the "lip" that Matt was talking about.
Logged

What's in a name? that which we call a tenor-bass posaune
By any other name would smell as sweet;
bonearzt

*
Offline Offline

Location: Denton-Dallas/Ft.Worth TX
Joined: Oct 23, 2004
Posts: 4145
"UTEP Alumni/Legend in my own mind!"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #14 on: Apr 21, 2016, 07:47AM »

IF that "collar/lip" is just soft soldered into what "could" be the threaded collar,  it might be possible to gently heat the receiver enough to loosen the solder & back the collar out.
Maybe!

OR as my past experience has been,  everything falls apart & you get to realign, resolder & refinish the whole POS......


Hard to tell until you blast it with a torch.


Eric
Logged

Eric, Leandra, Sara, Jared & Lily
Edwards
"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price has faded!"
"If you're doing something a certain way ONLY because it's always been done that way,  you're probably doing it wrong!"
bubbachet

*
Offline Offline

Location: Wisconsin
Joined: Dec 1, 2013
Posts: 773

View Profile
« Reply #15 on: Apr 21, 2016, 08:12AM »


Hard to tell until you blast it with a torch.


That's a metaphor for life if I've ever seen one.
Logged

"Conn 88H" - SL4747 Slide, Rath-built Rotax section, Bernd Sandner Rose Bell w/ Nickel Kranz
RolandJBarber
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Aug 29, 2010
Posts: 112

View Profile WWW
« Reply #16 on: Apr 22, 2016, 07:42PM »

The lip I refer to is on the threaded collar that holds the leadpipe, and determines where the leadpipe sits inside the collar. The pipe is inserted through the underside of the collar, and is prevented from coming through the collar by the lip. So, simply removing the pipe, without removing the collar, is not possible. removing the collar from the cork barrel would be the "fun" part....

FWIW..
M



The Olds Studio does the same thing. Leadpipe is mounted in the inner tube before the inner tube is mounted. At least in the Studio, the mouthpiece receiver is part of the cork barrel proper.

Not sure if that's the case for the 4047 models as well.

I agree that it's silly, though. Try a bunch of similar leadpipes (say Kanstul OL leadpipes) and no two will play exactly alike.

Then again, I've never met someone with a 396A who has so much as touched the harmonic pillars, because "Joe Alessi doesn't use them, and he sounds great". Perhaps it works the same way for 4047IB buyers and Bousfield.



Man.....

I just added a chorus to this blues today, trying to get a Bach Omega (.525) leadpipe out with my tech....
learned all that the hard way, and by the time you get it undone to really understand the innate problems, you can't even put it back together easily...

New inner tube is on order.

At least this is a good excuse to check out Brassark leadpipes...

Logged

Blowero

*
Offline Offline

Location: Southern California
Joined: Nov 1, 2006
Posts: 1799

View Profile WWW
« Reply #17 on: Apr 23, 2016, 12:22PM »

If that thing is actually threaded, and the threads are soft soldered in place, then the threaded ring is undoubtedly soft soldered to the leadpipe as well. So I don't think it would simply be a matter of heating it up and unscrewing it. If you got the ring off, it would probably leave the leadpipe behind. Then it shouldn't be too difficult to pull the leadpipe out, assuming it's not corroded in place. But like Eric said, you won't know until you heat it up.
Logged

Brass repair, modifications, custom parts and instruments

http://brassmedic.com
ChadA
*
Offline Offline

Location: Ohio
Joined: Jul 16, 2010
Posts: 343

View Profile WWW
« Reply #18 on: Apr 24, 2016, 08:21AM »

My local tech called Getzen about this.  The leadpipe is soldered to a collar like Getzen typically does.  They screw the collar/leadpipe in and solder around the junction between collar and threaded receiver.  So heat should free the collar, though it's possible the some stray solder got on the pipe and it might stay behind and need to be removed separately. Ideally, heat the collar/receiver and unscrew collar/leadpipe.  Clean solder off threads and move on with life.  But it could get more complicated depending on where/how far the solder flowed.
Logged

Chad Arnow, DMA
Bass Trombone, Dayton Philharmonic Orchestra
Assistant Professor of Trombone, University of Dayton
http://chadarnow.com/
http://go.udayton.edu/music
Horn Builder

*
Offline Offline

Location: Jackson WI
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
Posts: 1687

View Profile
« Reply #19 on: Apr 24, 2016, 09:39AM »

Believe me, this will NOT be as simple as "clean solder off threads and move on with life".....

M
Logged

Matthew Walker
Bass Trombonist, Opera Australia 1991-2006
Greenhoe Custom Trombones, Technician, Artist, Designer. 2006-2012
Getzen/Edwards Co Technician. 2013-2014
Freelance. May 2014-
Owner, M&W Custom Trombones. LLC. 2015-
Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Up
Print
Jump to: