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The Trombone ForumPractice BreakPolls(Moderators: bhcordova, RedHotMama, BFW) When our language is not english.....
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Question: Is it ok to join this forum when your  primary language is not english?
Yes - 59 (98.3%)
No - 1 (1.7%)
Total Voters: 60

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Author Topic: When our language is not english.....  (Read 5898 times)
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Doug Elliott
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« Reply #20 on: Jun 04, 2016, 07:30PM »

Leif's English, however he arrives at it, is a LOT more understandable than some American members here.

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BGuttman
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« Reply #21 on: Jun 04, 2016, 07:41PM »

Leif's English, however he arrives at it, is a LOT more understandable than some American members here.



I'll second that! Good!
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Bruce Guttman
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« Reply #22 on: Jun 08, 2016, 10:44AM »

I think the language should be English at any Internet forum.

Why not?

Well, I've spend nearly all my life trying to learn English to be able to speak and make my self understood, so I hope it is not in vain. I don't think any other language can compete with English unless we turn this to a Chinese forum.

All the western countries learn English in school and most other countries as well.

I have no problem with this language but what I sometimes feel be annoying is that the forum is too American in it's nature. On the other hand it is understandable it is, because most here are Americans. Sometimes I'm annoyed because you talk like you all live at the same street :-)

I don't mind to feel a bit awkward and foreign to you, but we must all understand that the globe is a huge place and there are great things going on everywhere all around our planet. It is obvious that in general knowledge about what is going on in the other parts of the world is not very much known of. It is because the rest of the world is not here!!!!!

We all know about great american jazz musicians and can discuss them but who knows about Monica Zetterlund or Harry Arnold and are you really interested, or who has ever heard of Peter Asplund.

We ALL know about Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton but who bothers to know about our Swedish politicians. I don't think anyone is interested (I'm not either) but sometimes this forum presumes we all want to think like Americans. I understand when there are a lot of Americans at one place (this forum) it turns to that, but please I'm from Sweden and I'm just as proud of my origin as you are of yours. We should get more international. I wonder how?

So I'm not having any trouble with the language but the fact that for some reason trombone players all around the rest of this world are not here (not writing much that is, besides me and a few other who do write) - and the rest of the world is a big great place. I wonder why they are not here?

/Tom
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BGuttman
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« Reply #23 on: Jun 08, 2016, 10:51AM »

We've had Graham Martin trying to bring up topics of Australian politics, but he seems to be talking to a wall; despite several other Aussie members.  I don't remember any of our English friends posting about local politics despite the incipient BREXIT election.

As to politics in countries where the native language is not English, I doubt it would have ANY traction here at all.

If you were to describe the situation in Sweden we might be curious (I certainly am), but as to making any value judgments -- I don't know enough to make a cogent comment.

But feel free to dis Trump all you want.  Seems most people outside the US want to (and he deserves it!).
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« Reply #24 on: Jun 08, 2016, 12:05PM »

I think the language should be English at any Internet forum.
 
Why not?

I'd say the language and everything else about a given forum should be whatever the forum owner wants it to be ... as long as it's legal of course (even if that means trying to communicate in Canadian).
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« Reply #25 on: Jun 08, 2016, 12:29PM »

Okay but.

I think we mostly do a good job of accommodating the non-native English speakers.  I'm in awe of how well they do, being a long way from fluent in any other language myself. 

On the other hand, there are a lot of native US speaking people who write without any regard for spelling, punctuation, grammar, etc., and I find that disrespectful. 
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Tim Richardson
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« Reply #26 on: Jun 08, 2016, 08:01PM »

as long as it's legal of course (even if that means trying to communicate in Canadian).

Which language is legal in Canada is probably a whole topic in itself. Evil
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« Reply #27 on: Jun 08, 2016, 09:15PM »

Quote
Well, I've spend nearly all my life trying to learn English to be able to speak and make my self understood, so I hope it is not in vain.

Watermailonman, your English appears completely confident and well-handled.


I recall traveling in Europe in the 70s and people might say they spoke English if you asked them, but a few sentences in and it was clear their English was pretty sketchy.

Since then, English in continental Europe seems to have made large advances, but maybe it only appears that way to me because all of my contacts are with the few Europeans brave enough and confident enough to visit English-language places on the Internet. 


For this forum to be more international, more international people will need to visit it. I don't think the Americans can make it more international by being less American.
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Robert Holmén

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« Reply #28 on: Jun 08, 2016, 10:04PM »

Watermailonman, your English appears completely confident and well-handled.

I recall traveling in Europe in the 70s and people might say they spoke English if you asked them, but a few sentences in and it was clear their English was pretty sketchy.

English is a core-curriculum course of study in Sweden and there's loads of English-language film and television.  In my experience Swedes, especially young Swedes, tend to speak English remarkably well.

I've even been told that it's sometimes easier for Scandinavians to speak English amongst themselves rather than their native languages.  Mind you, the person who told me that might have just been taking a swipe at Danes.
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« Reply #29 on: Jun 08, 2016, 10:18PM »

  Mind you, the person who told me that might have just been taking a swipe at Danes.

Norwegian and Danish are said to be largely mutually intelligible.

My (Danish-descended) uncle said he had a job during WWII, translating Danish into Norwegian, possibly the easiest job in the Army.
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Robert Holmén

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« Reply #30 on: Jun 08, 2016, 10:47PM »

English is a core-curriculum course of study in Sweden and there's loads of English-language film and television.  In my experience Swedes, especially young Swedes, tend to speak English remarkably well.

I've even been told that it's sometimes easier for Scandinavians to speak English amongst themselves rather than their native languages.  Mind you, the person who told me that might have just been taking a swipe at Danes.

True  :) Swedes and Norwegians understand each other pretty well. Danish is easy to read for a Swede but more difficult when spoken, but after some training it gets easier. People from Iceland have the same sounds in their language as we do, and if heard from distance it sounds just like Swedish. If you get close and really listen then we notice that we don't share many words. Occasional words can be picked up but nothing makes sense. Finnish is completely different. We have to speak English to understand a Finn or they have to speak Swedish because Finland has two official languages, Finnish and Swedish.

/Tom
« Last Edit: Jun 09, 2016, 03:24AM by watermailonman » Logged

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« Reply #31 on: Jun 09, 2016, 01:08AM »

I see now this topic is a little stupid. Sorry. Most people outside English spoken countries speak good English today. My generation not so good but I see people like Tom and many others have very good English. My daughter have highest score in School and can even speak different dialects like Australian, Texas, London etc. Funny to listen. But she tell me my English is very bad. So do my wife, but she have English as first Language.

I made the topic a little stupid, the question should be only for me who cant Express myself in English. If we turn the question upside down it could make sense for other People here. If you find a forum in let us say Italy but Your italien is not so good. Still its a forum that interest you very much. Would you join and use Google translate to read and Write? The risk is you dont understand all, and not all will understand you either.

When I make that question to myself, I believe I should be more careful. Even though this forum have lot of good people that understand the problem. I got lot of help and understanding here.

I hoped my English would be better after some time but its not, my wife tells its even worse because I started blend in some Norwegian Words.. :D

Well, I start another poll about register and range soon. Should be much more interesting. Sorry for this tread all good friends, this forum is very understanding and kind against people like me, thanks for that  Good!

Leif
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« Reply #32 on: Jun 09, 2016, 02:27AM »

If you find a forum in let us say Italy but Your italien is not so good. Still its a forum that interest you very much. Would you join and use Google translate to read and Write? The risk is you dont understand all, and not all will understand you either.

A few years back I joined a Norwegian brass band forum to ask questions to help me locate bands for this. I used Google Translate to go back and forth, and it basically worked fine - I apologised in advance for the awkwardness of the arrangement, posted both English and Norwegian versions of the text in each post in case somebody else spoke better English than Google's Norwegian, and was aware that I was missing nuances, but there were no problems, and I learned one or two words of Norwegian. This is of course a bit different from getting involved regularly - but then one's language skills improve with the practice of regular interaction.

Takk, Leif.
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Dave Taylor

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« Reply #33 on: Jun 09, 2016, 02:33AM »

We've had Graham Martin trying to bring up topics of Australian politics, but he seems to be talking to a wall; despite several other Aussie members.  I don't remember any of our English friends posting about local politics despite the incipient BREXIT election.

It's a critical mass thing, and in particular when we are talking about politics, a critical mass thing specific to those who like the off-topic sections and can bear to debate these things. And given that the critical mass for those discussions is US-based, anything else that is attempted tends to get drowned out by the usual discourse - it is self-reinforcing.

Think yourselves lucky you don't have a Brexit topic here. The whole thing is the most awful mish-mash of lies, disinformation, unacknowledged biases, and Dunning-Kruger, at every level from gutter to Westminster. We might seriously walk away based on flights of emotion and gut feelings mixed with a weird nostalgia for an utterly indefensible and long departed ancient situation. Aargh... When we did we grow so forgetful?
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« Reply #34 on: Jun 09, 2016, 02:47AM »

People who know three languages are called trilingual.
People who know two languages are called bilingual.
People who know only one language are called Americans. :D

The actual term in English is monoglot.
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« Reply #35 on: Jun 09, 2016, 03:00AM »

My brother-in-law is Czech. He works quite often with Germans who don't speak Czech. His German is poor and they don't speak Czech. What do they do? They communicate in English.
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« Reply #36 on: Jun 09, 2016, 05:13AM »

English is a core-curriculum course of study in Sweden and there's loads of English-language film and television.  In my experience Swedes, especially young Swedes, tend to speak English remarkably well.



We lived in Germany for 5 years courtesy of my employer.

In the more urban areas I was told English is pretty common.  In my area it was not, even for local nationals working for the US. 

One of our friends commented that English is taught in schools.  Then he asked the group of adult Americans how many of them could still do their high school geometry problems.  His point was clear.   Language is a skill with a shelf life, if not used, and for older Germans in Bavaria there was little opportunity to use it. 
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« Reply #37 on: Jun 09, 2016, 05:50AM »

We had a canadian conductor working with us in one of the orchestras I played in
 After his slow progress in german, the concertmaster suggested he rehearsed in english. The brass section spoke barely a word of english amongst them... I had to translate everything on the spot, including bar numbers, rehearsal marks,  not just the more complext instructions.
It was certainly a workout for my german.
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« Reply #38 on: Jun 09, 2016, 07:17AM »

I was in an Edeka once and ran into a Turkish family with no German, and the store personnel had no Turkish.

But the Turkish people had some English, and I ended up translating to German for them.  My German was never more than rudimentary but it sufficed.

What I found the most intimidating was calling a German business on the phone and trying to arrange an appointment.  When the pressure is on it's hard to remember the words, and you can't use gestures to help.  Answering machines are even worse. 
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« Reply #39 on: Jun 09, 2016, 09:11AM »

I was in an Edeka once and ran into a Turkish family with no German, and the store personnel had no Turkish.

But the Turkish people had some English, and I ended up translating to German for them.  My German was never more than rudimentary but it sufficed.

What I found the most intimidating was calling a German business on the phone and trying to arrange an appointment.  When the pressure is on it's hard to remember the words, and you can't use gestures to help.  Answering machines are even worse. 


I still hate answering machines don't speak english at all (except with my wife) anymore.
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