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Author Topic: François Riedlocker trombone  (Read 5022 times)
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heinz gries

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« on: Jun 12, 2016, 11:22PM »

can someone explain me, what function has the second tube, beside the bell section?
it seems to run into nothing.

http://collectionsdumusee.philharmoniedeparis.fr/doc/MUSEE/0130323
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HowardW
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« Reply #1 on: Jun 12, 2016, 11:55PM »

can someone explain me, what function has the second tube, beside the bell section?
it seems to run into nothing.
http://collectionsdumusee.philharmoniedeparis.fr/doc/MUSEE/0130323
It looks like they had some extra pieces of another instrument lying around in the museum and tried to use them to make a complete instrument. The bell brace is definitely spurious, and the bell ferrules don't match at all. It looks like the slide is complete, but the bell section is a bastard.

Howard
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matthijs

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« Reply #2 on: Jun 13, 2016, 12:31AM »

Could it be an extra tube for transposing the instrument? Please tell me if I'm not right, but didn't Praetorius also picture some extra tubes for this? Even though that's 200 years earlier, the instrument design did not change that much..

Anyway, Howard's explanation seems the most logic. Just an idea!  :)
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thetuningslide
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« Reply #3 on: Jun 13, 2016, 12:34AM »

Expensive pencil holder?
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« Reply #4 on: Jun 13, 2016, 01:18AM »

Counterweight.
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« Reply #5 on: Jun 13, 2016, 04:41AM »

Flag staff holder?
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Bruce Guttman
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« Reply #6 on: Jun 13, 2016, 05:08AM »

Hotdog compartment.
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SBMaestro

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« Reply #7 on: Jun 13, 2016, 08:42AM »

I agree with the idea of it being an extension tube for transposition.  It appears that it can be removed and added on just behind the loop of tubing.  It likely lowers the pitch another 1/2 step or whole step (it's difficult to tell).  Its location in the photo is probably for storage purposes, so you don't lose it.
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MrPillow
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« Reply #8 on: Jun 13, 2016, 08:53AM »

Better views of a similar system and a much more interesting instrument found here -

http://collectionsdumusee.philharmoniedeparis.fr/doc/MUSEE/0160506/trombone-a-coulisse-basse
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« Reply #9 on: Jun 13, 2016, 09:00AM »

I'd lean more toward counterweight,  or cigar holder.
Doesn't look like it matches up with any other tubing to use as a tuning extension.

Actually looking closer at the first example,  it looks to be part of the tuning mechanism,  just not directly in the air stream,  just an extension to keep alignment in check as you adjust the length.
If you look closely at the bell end of the loop,  it looks to be separated just a touch.


What key is it?  Interesting double slide in Byron's example!


Eric

P.S.  THIS is what discussions should be like ALL the time!!  MAYBE excepting the Chit-Chat section.....
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« Reply #10 on: Jun 13, 2016, 10:46AM »

I also believe that the loop is an extension that can be taken out.

Take the slide away. Now you can pull the loop off which is inserted in the neck pipe as well as the strange 'cigar holder'. Put the slide back - different tuning.

If - in the pictured state - the loop was not inserted/fixed in this upper pipe the whole construction would not be stable enough.

I'm not sure though why this upper tube needs to be so long.


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oslide

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« Reply #11 on: Jun 13, 2016, 12:47PM »

On second thoughts it seems to me that the neckpipe is too wide to be just a simple tube. It's probably a slide that can be used for fine-tuning. The 'cigar holder' too is a slide, but not part of the sounding tube. It needs to be so long in order to stabilize the system mechanically when it is extended.
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oslide

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« Reply #12 on: Jun 13, 2016, 01:18PM »

In contrast to the instrument mentioned by MrPillow, this one doesn't even have a 'normal' bell brace. With only a loop made out of thinwalled tube, stability may have been a concern. The thin brace near the bell crook looks a bit like an afterthought.
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heinz gries

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« Reply #13 on: Jun 13, 2016, 01:58PM »

Perhabs in this way


http://i.imgur.com/DwR4ciq.jpg
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« Reply #14 on: Jun 13, 2016, 08:26PM »

Telescopic gun sight.
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« Reply #15 on: Jun 13, 2016, 08:54PM »


Possibly,  but there doesn't seem a way to secure the tube when inserted between the slide & bell,  making it pretty unstable.

My vote is still as a stabilizing mechanism for the tuning extension.  See my observation above.

Eric
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heinz gries

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« Reply #16 on: Jun 14, 2016, 12:59AM »

Or maybe this way?


http://i.imgur.com/Hs9AXTQ.jpg
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Helmut Voigt alto with modified 36 Bach slide and brassark copper leadpipe
Conn 34H alto in D
Courtois alto
Bach LT6,gold plated,with Hoelle copper tuningslide.
Getzen Super deluxe silver plated and copper rim bell
Getzen 3508
MrPillow
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« Reply #17 on: Oct 26, 2016, 09:57AM »

By happenstance I came across the answer to all of our speculation. This extra tubing is traditionally part of the French style instrument known as the "trombone a pavillon avant ou arriere," or "trombone with foreward or rearward bell." See Bruno Kampmann's article in Larigot: Bulletin de l'Association des Collectionneurs d'Instruments a Vent No. 25, December 1999.

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« Reply #18 on: Oct 26, 2016, 11:51AM »

By happenstance I came across the answer to all of our speculation. This extra tubing is traditionally part of the French style instrument known as the "trombone a pavillon avant ou arriere," or "trombone with foreward and rearward bell." See Bruno Kampmann's article in Larigot: Bulletin de l'Association des Collectionneurs d'Instruments a Vent No. 25, December 1999.
Good catch!
Howard
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« Reply #19 on: Oct 28, 2016, 05:47PM »

Here are several rearward bells in iconography--http://hubpages.com/entertainment/Backward-Bones-Rear-Facing-Trombones-Throughout-History
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