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Author Topic: Percussion like Michael P Mossman?  (Read 926 times)
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davdud101
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« on: Sep 20, 2016, 01:11PM »

Hi, trombrethren!

I've written an arrangement of my own tune for my church jazz orchestra. It's a large Samba tune based a bit around the sound that Michael Phillip Mossman produces (link below). I've played a couple of his arrangements and I LOVE he way his percussion sections sound- How can I NOTATE the percussion as it is here so that my percussionists can play it and make it sound a bit like that?
Here's what I mean:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AUR9_oVu5t8

Let's say I'd need a rather "broken-down" version of the overall sound he has here. That is, a drum kit, plus bongos and a shaker, MAYBE, stress the maybe, a guiro if we're lucky to get another guy on stage.

Any suggestions? Looking at the score doesn't give utmost detail, and my ears don't get quite enough detail from just the recording.
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« Reply #1 on: Sep 20, 2016, 01:34PM »

there's a score with the link you posted that shows what MPM did with his chart.

The clave is 2-3, it's a mambo. With a "real" latin rhythm section, that's the only info you really need (although something that indicates any "hits" would be nice).


There is an excellent book by Rebeca Mauelon called "The Salsa Guidebook" that explains what happens in a latin rhythm section and how those separate parts are notated. Check it out, I think it's about $40 and worth every penny.

Also: this goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway. No book is going to teach you anything useful about this music without actually listening to it. There are several suggestions of recorded examples in the book and classic salsa albums you should get. I'll list a few that I feel would be good to start with:

Ruben Blades and Willie Colón: Siembra (Sam Burtis is in the bone section on this album if memory served me right.)
Willie Colon, Hector LaVoe - get any of this stuff, it's all great. Some complain about the sometimes sloppy trombone work. I love it. I'm am unapologetically a huge fan of all the FANIA stuff, particularly anything with Willie Colón. I'm listening to The Hustler right now (Que Lio is one of those tunes that gives me chills.)
Ray Barretto - Indestructible and Fuerza Gigante are two of my faves.
Poncho Sanchez - man, this is just great dance music and what a musician! Pancho is just one of the most musical cats on the planet! His "Cinderella" is a great son cha - it'll remind you of Santana's "Oye Como Va", has a great bone solo on it (Arturo Velasco I think)
Jimmy Bosch - Salsa Dura. Jimmy is probably the most in demand salsa trombonist. If you want to learn how to play salsa, he's a great guy to start with. He plays a lot of latin jazz as well, as the aforementioned album attests to. Brilliant musician and composer.
Havana D'Primera - Pasaporte - this is my favorite Timba album, I can't get enough of it!


this should get you started.


 
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davdud101
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« Reply #2 on: Sep 22, 2016, 12:06AM »

Thanks a load for the reply, Exzaclee, this is exaclee what I needed!!   Pant
In all seriousness, these resources are fantastic. I've started going through the list of albums you sent and I'm going to make a purchase on a couple of them while listening through some on YouTube. Great stuff!
I'll check out The Salsa Guidebook- Salsa intrigues me a lot and I wouldn't mind writing more of it. He goes through bass and piano and substituting the Salsa-rythm section for a drumkit and stuff like that, I'm assuming? That'll be worth my time to check out.

In any case, this makes the process of *learning* what the different instruments play to create the groove a rather straight-forward process of listening and learning both the overall sound and groove, as well as conventional rhythms for each section.

Thanks again! I'm looking forward to diving into Salsa!
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« Reply #3 on: Sep 22, 2016, 07:47AM »

For starters, I didn't start playing this music until I was 19 (about 22 years ago) and I still feel very "new", a problem compounded by my horrible spanish language skills. I can tell you what I know, but I also differ to more knowledgable authorities on this matter.

In the transition from percussion section to drum set, it's not really a simple matter of "substitute this for this" but the following can get you started:

The Toms are often used to mimic timbales and congas

Snare off can also be used to mimic the high timbale.

Ride cymbal often takes the place of the bell if you have no cowbell, the bell of the ride cymbal particularly.

Horacio "El Negro" Hernandez put out a great video a few years ago where he discusses how he translates latin percussion to set playing - have a look around the webs and see if you can locate it. Back in my undergrad (mid 90's) all the drummers I was working with were passing this video around so I saw it a bunch of times. He has a cow bell and clave with foot pedal - necessary for this approach to playing the kit.

Here's his website: http://www.elnegro.com

Keep in mind, I'm no drummer.

The most important thing is that your drummer listen to this music. I don't care what you write in the chart, you cannot put all the dots in the right place and expect someone who isn't familiar with this style to play it convincingly. The best practice I can think of is to have your drummer just play along with this stuff, and crack open the Mauleon book to see what the basic rhythms are for those grooves and work from there.
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