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The Trombone ForumCreation and PerformanceOther Musicians and Ensembles(Moderator: blast) Bob Dylan wins 2016 Nobel Prize for Literature
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Graham Martin
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« on: Oct 13, 2016, 02:59PM »

This is a very strange coincidence, but only two days ago I changed my signature from a Bob Dylon lyric quote, which I have always liked very much. This was it:

"May God bless and keep you always
May your wishes all come true
May you always do for others
And let others do for you
May you build a ladder to the stars
And climb on every rung
May you stay......forever young."

~Bob Dylan~


And now comes the news overnight that Bob has won the 2016 Nobel Prize for Literature for his songwriting efforts. I believe this is a well-deserved and a compliment to the thinking of my generation. John Lennon, of course, carried on the tradition. It was about time the Nobel people awarded the prize to a musician and in so doing accept the fact that lyric writers are amongst the greatest of writers and poets, especially considering the constraints they often work under having to fit the words to the music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G58XWF6B3AA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l4nVByCL44

I guess I was always a bit of a hippy at heart. Good!

I think I will have to change my signature back to what I had before. :D

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-10-13/bob-dylan-wins-nobel-prize-for-literature/7931116

So, what do you guys think about Bob getting the award?   
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Grah

"May God bless and keep you always
May your wishes all come true
May you always do for others
And let others do for you
May you build a ladder to the stars
And climb on every rung
May you stay......forever young."
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« Reply #1 on: Oct 13, 2016, 03:25PM »

I love Dylan's music and lyrics.  Great and influential writer? Not really.  There are much more deserving, IMO.
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Jim Theobald
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« Reply #2 on: Oct 13, 2016, 03:58PM »

I can't recall who, maybe Daniel Lanois, said the world didn't need another Bob Dylan one note melody.
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BGuttman
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« Reply #3 on: Oct 13, 2016, 07:02PM »

I always enjoyed Dylan's songs -- as long as he didn't sing them Evil
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Bruce Guttman
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« Reply #4 on: Oct 13, 2016, 09:31PM »

Wow. So where's Sherman Alexie's Grammy?

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MikeBMiller
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« Reply #5 on: Oct 14, 2016, 06:11AM »

I always enjoyed Dylan's songs -- as long as he didn't sing them Evil

I saw him play about 20 something years ago in Charlotte. It was one of the worst concerts I have ever been to. He just sort of pulled his hat down and mumbled into the mic for an hour and a half. I didn't even know what song he was on until the band started singing backgrounds. There was no interaction at all with the audience. He didn't even say hello. Complete waste of money.
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« Reply #6 on: Oct 14, 2016, 09:10AM »

Come gather 'round people where ever you roam
And admit that the waters around you have grown
And accept it that soon you'll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin' or you'll sink like a stone,
For the times they are a' changin'!

Come writers and critics who prophesy with your pen
And keep your eyes wide the chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon for the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who that it's namin'
For the loser now will be later to win
For the times they are a' changin'!

Come senators, congressmen please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside and it's ragin'
It'll soon shake your windows and rattle your walls
For the times they are a' changin'!

Come mothers and fathers throughout the land
And don't criticize what you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters are beyond your command
Your old road is rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one if you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a' changin'!

The line it is drawn the curse it is cast
The slow one now will later be fast
As the present now will later be past
The order is rapidly fadin'
And the first one now will later be last
For the times they are a' changin'!



If Dylan only wrote this song and nothing else, it would be enough for the pulitzer.
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« Reply #7 on: Oct 14, 2016, 09:25AM »

Forgive me for taking this one personally, but this falls in my area of expertise. Compared to other poets, or even other well-trained lyricists, Dylan is a hack.

Imagine a trombonist who hadn't been to a conservatory, playing out of tune but with great feeling, getting first chair in a major symphony. You would be outraged. I'm outraged. Dylan's writing is shoddy. The scansion is clunky and works only because he jams words into a verse like Nikki Minaj jams her posterior into yoga pants. The rhyme is imperfect--not because that enhances the message, but because the words are poorly chosen. The syntax often sounds like Yoda.

The man was an important cultural icon, but putting him in a category with Alice Munro or Doris Lessing is insulting. "The wheel's still in spin?" Really? That much trouble to get "spin" at the end of the verse so you can rhyme it with "pen"? I guess for Dylan, with his nasal pronunciation, "pen" rhymes with "spin," but it's something that could (and would) have been re-written by any competent lyricist.
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« Reply #8 on: Oct 14, 2016, 09:35AM »

With apologies for piquancy of expressive terms:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-entertainment/writing-a-novel-a-lot-fking-harder-than-writing-blowin-in-the-wind-say-novelists-20161013115334
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Dave Taylor

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« Reply #9 on: Oct 14, 2016, 10:11AM »

Poetry isn't just about the words.

...Geezer
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« Reply #10 on: Oct 14, 2016, 10:21AM »

Poetry isn't just about the words.


Right. It's about how they're arranged. And that's my point. Dylan isn't very good at arranging words. He has a few interesting images and phrases, but the bulk of what he writes just amounts to poorly selected and arranged words.
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« Reply #11 on: Oct 14, 2016, 10:22AM »

So who decides the Lit prize? Eighteen members of The Swedish Academy

Quote
The Swedish Academy was founded in 1786 by Swedish King Gustav III. The Academy is composed of 18 members whose tenure is for life. Known as "De Aderton" (The Eighteen), current members of the Academy include distinguished Swedish writers, linguists, literary scholars, historians and a prominent jurist. Its working body is the Nobel Committee, elected from among its members for a three-year term.


I'm going to guess the current members were of teen or 20-something age during the 60s.

I can hope that in 20 years the membership of the Swedish Academy will be awarding a prize to Duran Duran or Rick Astley.

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Robert Holmén

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« Reply #12 on: Oct 14, 2016, 11:00AM »

Right. It's about how they're arranged. And that's my point. Dylan isn't very good at arranging words. He has a few interesting images and phrases, but the bulk of what he writes just amounts to poorly selected and arranged words.


Nope. Not really.

...Geezer
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« Reply #13 on: Oct 14, 2016, 12:08PM »

Nope. Not really.

...Geezer

Wow. You must have won the Nobel Prize for your debating skills.
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« Reply #14 on: Oct 14, 2016, 12:48PM »

I'm not debating.

...Geezer
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« Reply #15 on: Oct 14, 2016, 01:34PM »

Wow. You must have won the Nobel Prize for your debating skills.

Last I checked, they don't offer a nobel for debating skills. I doubt anyone on this forum would be in the running if they did.

They do, however, offer one for literature, and the panel agreed that Mr. Dylan deserves one this year.
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MikeBMiller
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« Reply #16 on: Oct 14, 2016, 01:45PM »

Imagine a trombonist who hadn't been to a conservatory, playing out of tune but with great feeling, getting first chair in a major symphony. You would be outraged.

Actually, I would be encouraged to go practice more and maybe I could win the next one.
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« Reply #17 on: Oct 14, 2016, 02:21PM »

Last I checked, they don't offer a nobel for debating skills. I doubt anyone on this forum would be in the running if they did.

You're right. I don't know how I could have been so mistaken. I was certain that they had a Nobel Prize for debating skill, and another for recognizing when someone on the internet is using sarcasm. Thanks for correcting me on that. I truly appreciate it.

They do, however, offer one for literature, and the panel agreed that Mr. Dylan deserves one this year.

Yes, again you're right. Prize award committees should never be criticized for their selections. Like when the "Starland Vocal Band" beat out "The Brothers Johnson" for "Best New Artist" in 1977, or when Disco OHW "A Taste of Honey" beat out "Elvis Costello" for the same prize in 1979.

Let's also have a shout-out for the Nobel awarded to António Caetano de Abreu Freire Egas Moniz for his pioneering work in developing the prefrontal lobotomy. No error there.

I'm not debating.

...Geezer


Again, I apologize. My understanding of what that term means has changed since last Sunday.  Evil
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BGuttman
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« Reply #18 on: Oct 14, 2016, 02:36PM »

...

Again, I apologize. My understanding of what that term means has changed since last Sunday.  Evil

I wouldn't have called what happened last Sunday as a Debate either.

You are entitled to your opinion on the validity or lack of it for the Nobel award.  Let's face it -- they gave one for Peace to Obama in 2009 and this year to Machado.  Did either one really deserve it?  Sometimes the choice of the Committee seems a bit strange.
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Bruce Guttman
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« Reply #19 on: Oct 14, 2016, 03:40PM »

I didn't know this discussion was supposed to take place in real time. I was busy hanging kitchen cabinets. My point is - no sarcasm intended - that truly good poetry or prose evokes a feeling, emotion, deeper understanding, consciousness lifting, etc. It's more than the sum total of words and the clever ways they are arranged.

Some despise Robert Zimmerman's poetry. So it has evoked something in them as well as in others who appreciate it. Forgettable poetry or prose does not do that. One cannot discount the effect he has had - good or bad - on quite a lot of people; to the point of possibly re-directing our culture.

While we may or may not agree with the award, I am content to think that brighter minds had justifiable reasons. Then again, it may all be a conspiracy. lol

...Geezer
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