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Geezerhorn

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« Reply #40 on: Nov 17, 2016, 11:31AM »

Haven't lost any high range yet.

Lost some endurance, but I didn't play much for over 2 weeks (started playing light, easy gigs after a week and a half, but waited until I started practicing with more intense sessions to determine how much I could push myself). It's coming back as I keep practicing and gigging.


 Good!  I believe that speaks well for your technique. It takes strength to hit higher notes, but some have the advantage of better technique that seems to require less strength than others who might have to belt it out with brute strength.

I believe if you continue to keep your protein, vitamin and mineral intake up - as well as a modest amount of carbs from complex sources - you will not experience loss of strength to any great degree. I think hydration is important as well.

Take care...

...Geezer
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BMadsen

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« Reply #41 on: Nov 18, 2016, 11:18AM »

Good!  I believe that speaks well for your technique. It takes strength to hit higher notes, but some have the advantage of better technique that seems to require less strength than others who might have to belt it out with brute strength.

I believe if you continue to keep your protein, vitamin and mineral intake up - as well as a modest amount of carbs from complex sources - you will not experience loss of strength to any great degree. I think hydration is important as well.

Take care...

...Geezer

This is certainly true - I'm taking in a MINIMUM of 60 grams of protein a day - most days 80+ - by order of the doctor. I also take a daily multivitamin, 2 doses of Calcium + Vit D (our bodies can't take in the amount I need daily in one does), and an iron+vitamin C supplement, all by order of the doctor.

I used to have bad technique - even after graduating from the New School. I chalk it up to being young and thick-headed - my teachers tried to set me on the right path, but I was hitting what I wanted to hit with enough consistency to be happy, so I didn't fix it. When I did some masters work and studied with Bruce Bonvissuto, that was the first thing he had me fix, and I was much more mature and open to doing the work. It's now something I pay careful attention to, because when my technique starts to falter, I IMMEDIATELY notice a problem.
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Geezerhorn

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« Reply #42 on: Nov 18, 2016, 01:20PM »

The following is my opinion. I'm not certified (though some may say I'm certifiable) and it's been a while since I studied this personally, so I may be off the mark.

I'm glad you are doing this per a doctor's instructions. I think it could otherwise be dangerous. When someone over-enthusiastically follows a diet to the point where it becomes a crash diet and the dieter reduces carbs down to below a minimal amount they truly need in a day - it can throw the body into ketosis or even acidosis; due to fat metabolism, if I remember my nutrition courses correctly. I'm not stating that is what I think you are doing; I'm stating that it is something to guard against.

I have heard of dieters reducing carbs down to below 35 grams a day. They can maybe get away with it for a day or two before trouble sets in. I would hope your Doc has counselled you to keep a little supply of crackers or a small piece of fresh fruit or maybe even hard candy (not sure about that) with you and if you feel any slight bit of dizziness or light-headedness, to ingest some. And since you are metabolizing fat from the body, I think hydration is necessary to flush everything out. Some dieters get extreme to the point where they do not want to even drink water, because it can temporarily fill the stomach up and make them feel "fat".

I would avoid all carbonated beverages - even diet ones. I find that when I consume them, my stomach gets a little distended from the CO2 released and when the gas gets burped out, I feel hungry from an enlarged and empty stomach. If I'm trying to lose weight, the last thing I want is to feel hungry.

But don't take my word on anything above. Continue to follow your Doc's advice, or if I've raised some points - seek their counsel.

Best of luck and keep us informed!

...Geezer
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BMadsen

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« Reply #43 on: Nov 23, 2016, 07:10AM »

The following is my opinion. I'm not certified (though some may say I'm certifiable) and it's been a while since I studied this personally, so I may be off the mark.

I'm glad you are doing this per a doctor's instructions. I think it could otherwise be dangerous. When someone over-enthusiastically follows a diet to the point where it becomes a crash diet and the dieter reduces carbs down to below a minimal amount they truly need in a day - it can throw the body into ketosis or even acidosis; due to fat metabolism, if I remember my nutrition courses correctly. I'm not stating that is what I think you are doing; I'm stating that it is something to guard against.

I have heard of dieters reducing carbs down to below 35 grams a day. They can maybe get away with it for a day or two before trouble sets in. I would hope your Doc has counselled you to keep a little supply of crackers or a small piece of fresh fruit or maybe even hard candy (not sure about that) with you and if you feel any slight bit of dizziness or light-headedness, to ingest some. And since you are metabolizing fat from the body, I think hydration is necessary to flush everything out. Some dieters get extreme to the point where they do not want to even drink water, because it can temporarily fill the stomach up and make them feel "fat".

I would avoid all carbonated beverages - even diet ones. I find that when I consume them, my stomach gets a little distended from the CO2 released and when the gas gets burped out, I feel hungry from an enlarged and empty stomach. If I'm trying to lose weight, the last thing I want is to feel hungry.

But don't take my word on anything above. Continue to follow your Doc's advice, or if I've raised some points - seek their counsel.

Best of luck and keep us informed!

...Geezer

Well, if someone wants to lose fat, some level of Ketosis is required - ketosis is how our bodies burn fat. But it needs to be controlled.

That being said, losing weight with surgery has very specific, unique circumstances that aren't true when you just diet and excercise.

For example, I have to be careful when I eat vs when I drink, otherwise the combination of liquids and solids in my stomach can cause issues. So, I stop drinking fluids 15 min before I eat, and start drinking again 30 minutes after I finish eating. No fluids during the meal, and I take 20 - 40 minutes to eat a meal. Stopping too often to eat would mean I risk dehydration, so I only eat 3 times a day.

I drink a minimum of 50 ounces of caffeine-free beverages a day. I can't drink anything carbonated anymore - the carbonation can stretch my stomach, and even if it doesn't do that, for the vast majority of people with this surgery, they find it gives them very, very severe gas pain.

There is a very specific diet you follow in recovery. Almost no raw fruit (skins and crunch are a problem, so ripe bananas are ok, for example), no candy, etc. Very, very low carbs (none at all for the first month beyond whatever is in your protein shakes and pureed veggies), mostly protein (to avoid muscle loss), etc. This has all been designed by nutritionists along with doctors, and perfected over a more than 10 years (I think more than 40, actually, since this is basically a modified gastric bypass without the bypass - so it almost eliminates the risk of nutritional deficiencies that can arise even when following doctors orders), so anyone doing this should follow their doctors advice, not anything anyone has posted here, including myself. Every doctor has adapted things for their patients so they know they work.

And, anyone doing this is going to eat very differently than what anyone else would expect, so it's even more important that you IGNORE the advice of anyone not tied directly to your healthcare team, especially those working with your surgeon, as not following the directions can last you in the hospital. I've already had a few people ask why I couldn't eat/drink something with them, and they tried to argue it would be fine, because it was "healthy" food (and, it was - bites of broccoli, a low-cal fruit smoothie, etc) - but, I know that what was in those foods would be problematic FOR ME because of the surgery, and had to be avoided, because of my situation.

The only people who tell me what I can and can't eat? My surgeon and the nutritionist working with them. They are the only people in the world who I trust to know what is going on with my body and offer advice. And, so far, they are right - I'm down 48 lbs now, with no issues beyond the multi-vitamin issue.
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Geezerhorn

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« Reply #44 on: Nov 28, 2016, 01:17PM »

Well, if someone wants to lose fat, some level of Ketosis is required - ketosis is how our bodies burn fat. But it needs to be controlled.

That being said, losing weight with surgery has very specific, unique circumstances that aren't true when you just diet and excercise.

For example, I have to be careful when I eat vs when I drink, otherwise the combination of liquids and solids in my stomach can cause issues. So, I stop drinking fluids 15 min before I eat, and start drinking again 30 minutes after I finish eating. No fluids during the meal, and I take 20 - 40 minutes to eat a meal. Stopping too often to eat would mean I risk dehydration, so I only eat 3 times a day.

I drink a minimum of 50 ounces of caffeine-free beverages a day. I can't drink anything carbonated anymore - the carbonation can stretch my stomach, and even if it doesn't do that, for the vast majority of people with this surgery, they find it gives them very, very severe gas pain.

There is a very specific diet you follow in recovery. Almost no raw fruit (skins and crunch are a problem, so ripe bananas are ok, for example), no candy, etc. Very, very low carbs (none at all for the first month beyond whatever is in your protein shakes and pureed veggies), mostly protein (to avoid muscle loss), etc. This has all been designed by nutritionists along with doctors, and perfected over a more than 10 years (I think more than 40, actually, since this is basically a modified gastric bypass without the bypass - so it almost eliminates the risk of nutritional deficiencies that can arise even when following doctors orders), so anyone doing this should follow their doctors advice, not anything anyone has posted here, including myself. Every doctor has adapted things for their patients so they know they work.

And, anyone doing this is going to eat very differently than what anyone else would expect, so it's even more important that you IGNORE the advice of anyone not tied directly to your healthcare team, especially those working with your surgeon, as not following the directions can last you in the hospital. I've already had a few people ask why I couldn't eat/drink something with them, and they tried to argue it would be fine, because it was "healthy" food (and, it was - bites of broccoli, a low-cal fruit smoothie, etc) - but, I know that what was in those foods would be problematic FOR ME because of the surgery, and had to be avoided, because of my situation.

The only people who tell me what I can and can't eat? My surgeon and the nutritionist working with them. They are the only people in the world who I trust to know what is going on with my body and offer advice. And, so far, they are right - I'm down 48 lbs now, with no issues beyond the multi-vitamin issue.

You have gotten expert counsel and that's the way it should be. I imagine the toughest part of this past holiday week-end was saying "no" to all of the well-intentioned force-feeders you came in contact with. Everyone is a chef and a nutritionist.

But if you survived this past week-end, it's because of your determination!

One holiday down; one to go. You can do it!

...Geezer
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BMadsen

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« Reply #45 on: Nov 29, 2016, 05:14AM »

Holidays are a little easier than you'd think for me - we don't have family nearby, so this year it was just my wife, daughter and myself. But, even if we did have family over (or go to see family), everyone knows about this and has been extremely supportive, so I'm not terribly worried.

And, trust me - I already had problems with eating a little too much once (my doctor was surprised it was only once - apparently multiple instances is so common they expect it as part of the relearning how much you can eat process) - it's not an experience I want to repeat, so it becomes really easy to say "no" to the large amounts of food! Even last nights gig, with copious amounts of delicious hors d'oeuvres floating around, was easy to turn down more than 3 items, which was about all I could handle.

Thanks! I will continue to keep everyone updated with my progress!
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« Reply #46 on: Dec 01, 2016, 09:02AM »

Another update.

Just got home from seeing my surgeon for a follow up.

I'm fully cleared to lift again - no weight restrictions, and can start going to the gym again.

I am also cleared to (slowly) introduce a more regular diet. Obviously, I still need to focus on protein, but at this point there are no restrictions on what I can eat. They recommend having one new food a day, to see how I tolerate it, and to avoid bread and rice for now because they can expand and fill the stomach very quickly, but I've been healing great.

On the healthfulness of my rapid loss, they say I'm doing fantastic. They project, for most patients, 10-12 lbs a month. I've lost 48 lbs in 7 weeks, if you include the pre-surgical period (38 lbs post-surgery, which is a 6 week period). They say as long as I'm feeling well (good energy levels, keeping food down, etc), the rapid loss is fine, and bodes well for long-term success at keeping it off, since it shows I'm willing to eat well long-term (which I already knew I was because I already had been).

Very happy I made this decision - the nutritionist expects I'll eventually make it down to 180-210 (hard to know exactly where in there I'll fall). I haven't been that weight since I was in middle school or early high school!
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« Reply #47 on: Dec 01, 2016, 09:34AM »

Another update.

Just got home from seeing my surgeon for a follow up.

I'm fully cleared to lift again - no weight restrictions, and can start going to the gym again.

I am also cleared to (slowly) introduce a more regular diet. Obviously, I still need to focus on protein, but at this point there are no restrictions on what I can eat. They recommend having one new food a day, to see how I tolerate it, and to avoid bread and rice for now because they can expand and fill the stomach very quickly, but I've been healing great.

On the healthfulness of my rapid loss, they say I'm doing fantastic. They project, for most patients, 10-12 lbs a month. I've lost 48 lbs in 7 weeks, if you include the pre-surgical period (38 lbs post-surgery, which is a 6 week period). They say as long as I'm feeling well (good energy levels, keeping food down, etc), the rapid loss is fine, and bodes well for long-term success at keeping it off, since it shows I'm willing to eat well long-term (which I already knew I was because I already had been).

Very happy I made this decision - the nutritionist expects I'll eventually make it down to 180-210 (hard to know exactly where in there I'll fall). I haven't been that weight since I was in middle school or early high school!

That's excellent news!

I wouldn't be surprised if your team decided to take your weight down a little further than your target goal, to give you some bounce-back cushion room.

 Good!

...Geezer
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« Reply #48 on: Dec 27, 2016, 08:50PM »

An update...

I'm now down 69 pounds since 10/12. That's an average of 27.6 pounds a month.

My weight loss is slowing, but is still continuing. This is expected, but, after seeing the weight just drop, a little disappointing (I know it will continue, but there is something about seeing that scale move that quickly that is very motivating).

I tolerate most foods well. Bread and pasta are a big problem for me, but crackers are fine. I have lots of protein, and then veggies - carbs are not as important to me.

My tastes haven't changed a lot, but considering that I craved veggies and salads before the surgery, it's no surprise.

Haven't been able to start working out again - I've been way too busy gigging. And, most of those gigs involve playing my mini tuba (wessex mighty gnome) for 4+ hours a night walking around on my feet, so, that counts as a workout, right?

Interestingly, the NY Times just put out an article about Gastric Bypass. For those of you following this thread and interested, I found it very good.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/27/health/bariatric-surgery.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
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« Reply #49 on: Dec 27, 2016, 09:45PM »

Wow, that is amazing progress!
I wonder how you can lose it that fast and still have stamina and chops to play lots of gigs.  I guess the simple fact that you're hauling less around gives you more energy.
Congratulations, it sounds like you're doing really well.
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« Reply #50 on: Dec 27, 2016, 10:37PM »

Nice work mate!

I wish you continued success with your health for the rest of your life!

Justin
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« Reply #51 on: Dec 28, 2016, 05:37AM »

AND on top of it all - the holiday season - where NO ONE loses weight!!!!!!! WOW!

...Geezer
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« Reply #52 on: Dec 28, 2016, 11:26AM »

Wow, that is amazing progress!
I wonder how you can lose it that fast and still have stamina and chops to play lots of gigs.  I guess the simple fact that you're hauling less around gives you more energy.
Congratulations, it sounds like you're doing really well.

My guess is that it has to do with the fact that fat is stored energy - so, since I'm eating so little, I'm burning up the fat.

I've definitely been busy - at least one job a day every day this month except 12/5, 12/25, and today (which I took for myself - I have a small strain in my back, and some bigger jobs the next few days, so my lower money gig got subbed out in favor of resting that back).

I have had enough energy - I'm worn out now, but I was at this point last year too (same deal then), so that just has to do with being on essentially non-stop for a month.

AND on top of it all - the holiday season - where NO ONE loses weight!!!!!!! WOW!

...Geezer

Pretty hard to NOT lose weight when you can't eat more than a few ounces at a time!

That being said, I've indulged in some treats that I normally don't have during the year - holiday cookies, for example. But, where I used to eat more of them, I am eating a lot less. That also might be why the weight loss slowed a bit (in fact, I'm sure of it) - we will see once we've finished the last of the holiday treats how the numbers start moving again.

Nice work mate!

I wish you continued success with your health for the rest of your life!

Justin

Thanks!
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« Reply #53 on: Jan 01, 2017, 10:38AM »

Stupendous!

Do you feel like you might have a new lease on your life? Losing that much must have given you a DECADE or even TWO to live beyond whatever you would have had without losing weight. Maybe even more! How great is that?!

Keep on trucking!
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BMadsen

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« Reply #54 on: Jan 03, 2017, 05:57AM »

Stupendous!

Do you feel like you might have a new lease on your life? Losing that much must have given you a DECADE or even TWO to live beyond whatever you would have had without losing weight. Maybe even more! How great is that?!

Keep on trucking!

I'll be honest - I don't feel like I have a new lease on life, in terms of longevity. That may have to do with the fact that, except for sleep apnea (under control with a oral/dental device), and a knee that I've had 2 surgeries on, my health was, and continues to be, excellent (pristine bloodwork, except for a vitamin D deficiency which my doctor said nearly every American has now). As my doctor put it, if it weren't for my weight, I'd be one of her healthiest patients. Now, I have no disillusionment as to what might be coming my way had I not lost the weight - the risks for diabetes, heart disease, etc, were a lot higher, and I'm sure I would have faced SOMETHING at some point because of the weight. But, it's hard to feel like I've gained a longer life when I was feeling great already.

However, I do notice that things that used to wear me out, don't as much anymore. If I had to climb a lot of stairs (not my regular stairs in the house, but 3 or 4 stories or more), it would be tiring. Now, I can do that and not be as tired. My bad knee doesn't bother me as much. And, because I had to be acutely aware of how much I was carrying during recovery, I'm now aware of how much weight 20, 30, 40 lbs is when I'm carrying equipment now, and it shocks me to think I was carrying a lot MORE than that in excess weight.

I'm getting excited about another milestone I'm approaching. I'm about 13 pounds away from the lowest weight I've ever been as an adult. Once I hit that, I'll be in new territory - and I'm very curious and excited to see where that will take me.

As a another note, here's an interesting article published last week about gastric bypass surgery. Bypass is more drastic than what I had - they usually makes the stomach even smaller than what they do for gastric sleeve, and they reroute the intestines so your body bypasses some of the small intestine, making it harder to absorb as many calories. But, it's an interesting article because it does talk about how the entire system that regulates our weight changes when someone has the gastric sleeve or gastric bypass surgery.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/27/health/bariatric-surgery.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fhealth&action=click&contentCollection=health&region=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=9&pgtype=sectionfront

And, the times also did an article earlier this year about the Biggest Loser contestants, and how their weight struggles (nearly all regain the weight, most regain most or all of what they lost) have shed a lot of new light on how our bodies regulate weight.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/02/health/biggest-loser-weight-loss.html?_r=0

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« Reply #55 on: Feb 22, 2017, 05:15PM »

An update...

I'm now down 69 pounds since 10/12. That's an average of 27.6 pounds a month.

My weight loss is slowing, but is still continuing. This is expected, but, after seeing the weight just drop, a little disappointing (I know it will continue, but there is something about seeing that scale move that quickly that is very motivating).

So, the above was a mistype - and I didn't notice at the time. I do apologize. I'll attribute it to late December exhaustion, because the accompanying math was also based on the wrong data. It was actually 59 lbs, and 23.6 lbs a month.

I'm now down 75 lbs, averaging around 20 lbs a month. As you can see, the weight loss is slowing, as expected. I've also hit that milestone - I'm the same weight I was when I was 20 (last was this weight in May of 2003).

The doctor believes I'll settle anywhere between 100 - 130 lbs lost, all in all. They figure I'll hit that point in July. That would be 9 months, which is an average of 11-14 lbs a month at that point. Considering I have 25-55 lbs to go, that's 5 - 11 lbs a month.

At this point, the weight loss, while still something I'm watching and excited about, doesn't occupy a central role in my thinking. Most of the changes that I had to deal with regarding eating are now habits, and I don't even miss most of the old foods I used to eat and can't anymore.

I will say I am noticing some changes in my tastes. I used to have to be really careful with sweets, because while I wouldn't crave them, when I got started on them, it was hard to stop (so I mostly aimed to avoid them, and did so successfully most of the time). Now, I can enjoy a sweet from time to time without that drive to keep eating them - and it doesn't have to do with fullness. I CAN eat more than one of my wife's homemade chocolate chip cookies (they are small). I now find one is enough.

I am noticing a little bit of extra skin. That is normal, from what I understand - it can take up to 2 years for the skin to catch up to the weight loss because it happens so fast, so I'm not worried. But, it's enough that I'm one size of pants bigger than I was when I was last this weight.

I still, occasionally, eat too fast and have some issues. But, I'm getting very good at knowing what I can eat without any problems, and when I have to eat fast on a gig, always eat less than I probably could to ensure no issues.

All in all, I would highly recommend this to anyone considering it, who is willing to follow the recommendations for the diet, and can stick to the vitamin regimen. To say it's life-changing is an understatement - while I'm not skinny, I look trim now. I'm down 10.5 points on the BMI scale (an imperfect measure of health, but nice to know). And, believe it or not, I notice my car getting better gas mileage, by almost 1 mpg!
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« Reply #56 on: Feb 22, 2017, 05:44PM »

Thanks for the update, Brad.  This is really interesting.  I hope you check back in April to see how you are doing.  Meanwhile, keep helping us with our playing issues when you can.
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« Reply #57 on: Feb 22, 2017, 06:38PM »

I was wondering about you. You're doing amazing!

It's interesting how the tastes can change. Wife & I turned mostly vegan about 2 years ago and our tastes have definitely changed. It's all what you get used to.

Keep going strong!

...Geezer
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« Reply #58 on: Feb 22, 2017, 07:10PM »

This is amazing Brad.   Good!

I wish you the best on this voyage.  You're a real trooper!

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« Reply #59 on: Feb 23, 2017, 04:18PM »

Thanks for the update, Brad.  This is really interesting.  I hope you check back in April to see how you are doing.  Meanwhile, keep helping us with our playing issues when you can.

Will do. I've been slammed lately - had a record January, fantastic February, and just scored a great opportunity that will very likely be very lucrative, and fun. It means playing a different axe for that gig (non-low brass), but definitely worth it.

Been working a lot as a consequence (I'll share the whole story of that opportunity when I can go public with it), so I haven't had much time to chime in. I will when I can though!  Good!
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Bradley Madsen
BFA - Trombone Performance, New School Jazz
917.648.1486
brad@bradleymadsen.com
http://www.bradleymadsen.com
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