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The Trombone ForumPractice BreakChit-ChatPurely Politics(Moderators: bhcordova, RedHotMama, BFW) What Trump's election means for the rest of the world
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Author Topic: What Trump's election means for the rest of the world  (Read 27054 times)
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BillO
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« Reply #580 on: Aug 12, 2017, 10:20AM »


It may be that Don is counting on China and his pal Vlad to bail him out on this. The price is likely to be a diminished US presence in the S China sea. Hard to imagine the US generals going along with that.

Well, the Chinese seem to be turning on this a bit.  They have said that if NK provoke the US into taking action, they are on their own.  The problem with this is that Trump may just take this as encouragement - yes, he is that stupid - and escalate this thing further.

The Chinese could shut this down in an instant by putting a trade embargo in place with NK.  It would definitely help them show the world who's in charge in that neck of the woods.  I guess they just don't want to the rest of the world any favors.  Hopefully they will step up and do the right thing before this before the two biggest diaper jockeys in the world try to duke (nuke?) it out.

The world needs their leadership right now.
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« Reply #581 on: Aug 12, 2017, 10:24AM »

But China has its own fish to fry. Like the US butting out of China's business in the S China sea. China sees to be walking a fine line.
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BillO
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« Reply #582 on: Aug 12, 2017, 10:31AM »

Well, the could make it a condition of the embargo that control of the SC sea is negotiated in good faith.  I guess one stumbling block there is block head Trump.

... and then there is Putin ...
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« Reply #583 on: Aug 12, 2017, 10:44AM »

Well, the Chinese seem to be turning on this a bit.  They have said that if NK provoke the US into taking action, they are on their own.  The problem with this is that Trump may just take this as encouragement - yes, he is that stupid - and escalate this thing further.

I hope not, because a war with Korea would be horrific, without China taking sides. We would win, but the loss of life would be staggering and the world economy would be in tatters.

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The Chinese could shut this down in an instant by putting a trade embargo in place with NK.  It would definitely help them show the world who's in charge in that neck of the woods.  I guess they just don't want to the rest of the world any favors.  Hopefully they will step up and do the right thing before this before the two biggest diaper jockeys in the world try to duke (nuke?) it out.

The reason China won't impose an embargo on NK is that it would create a collapsed state and a humanitarian crisis, and China does not want North Koreans pouring across its borders. Right now we're looking at a nuclear-capable state run by a seemingly unbalanced narcissist (talking about North Korea--I know that was confusing), and you hate to find out what Kim would do on the way down.

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The world needs their leadership right now.

My guess is that this will go a little farther, then Russia and China will step in with some face-saving solution for NK, which will, to their benefit, highlight the shift in global influence and the new uselessness of the US in international affairs.
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« Reply #584 on: Aug 12, 2017, 11:20AM »

The reason China won't impose an embargo on NK is that it would create a collapsed state and a humanitarian crisis,...

If China just did a regime change there'd be no collapsed state.

Invite Kim over for lunch, announce he decided to retire to a fossil dig in the Gobi desert and offer the post to a less crazy NK official who will disassemble the nuke program.
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Robert Holmén

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« Reply #585 on: Aug 12, 2017, 11:35AM »

If China just did a regime change there'd be no collapsed state.

Invite Kim over for lunch, announce he decided to retire to a fossil dig in the Gobi desert and offer the post to a less crazy NK official who will disassemble the nuke program.

I would think that the result would be a military junta, which would be preferable.
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« Reply #586 on: Aug 12, 2017, 12:32PM »

If China just did a regime change there'd be no collapsed state.
That's US philosophy and practice. In no small part as a reaction to that, China is firmly against regime changes. And they are quite consistent. In many of the US conflicts around the world, the US wants to replace leaders they do not like... such as in Syria. And China continually stands opposed.

For them to turn around and do it themselves... The Chinese are many things, but not the hypocrites that US politics are.
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« Reply #587 on: Aug 12, 2017, 02:17PM »

I hope not, because a war with Korea would be horrific, without China taking sides. We would win, but the loss of life would be staggering and the world economy would be in tatters.

It's terrifying to think what the Dear Leader might do when he knows he's about to be crushed, particularly with a powerless population that's living in a state of such marginal quality.
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« Reply #588 on: Aug 12, 2017, 09:15PM »

Talk about appeasement. When I was born, the president had beat the Nazis on the battlefield. Our current president is afraid to say anything bad about American Nazis, flying the battle flag that our soldiers died defeating.
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« Reply #589 on: Aug 13, 2017, 08:07PM »


It's terrifying to think what the Dear Leader might do when he knows he's about to be crushed, particularly with a powerless population that's living in a state of such marginal quality.

I'm confused. are you talking about North Korea or the U.S.?
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« Reply #590 on: Aug 15, 2017, 04:04PM »

 Bad dog.  No Biscuits.

Rather stupidly IMO, Australian Defence personnel will next week take part in joint training exercises between the United States and South Korea. Such action will only serve to make Australia a bigger target in this escalating military crisis with North Korea.

These Ulchi-Freedom Guardian exercises involve tens of thousands of American and South Korean troops on the ground and in the sea and air. I note however that it is only a token effort of about two dozen ADF personnel who will take part in the training exercises. With the present tensions, I think they should be cancelled.

I absolutely condemn North Korea for everything it is doing with the missiles and development of nuclear capability, but Kim jong-un seems to have put the launch of rockets towards Guam on hold for the time being and these exercises might inflame the situation. Especially, as after last year's exercise, the North conducted a nuclear test.

Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull last week confirmed Australia would join the US in any conflict with North Korea if it carries out its threat to fire missiles towards the strategic American territory of Guam in the Pacific. Turnbull takes the ANZUS Treaty very seriously and I only hope that Trump has the same opinion, but I doubt it.
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Grah

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« Reply #591 on: Aug 15, 2017, 04:25PM »

Bad dog.  No Biscuits.

Rather stupidly IMO, Australian Defence personnel will next week take part in joint training exercises between the United States and South Korea. Such action will only serve to make Australia a bigger target in this escalating military crisis with North Korea.


It doesn't matter what you do. You're in range?  You're a target! Everyone's a target!

If you are participating in the economic sanctions (I presume you are) that will be premise enough.
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BillO
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« Reply #592 on: Aug 15, 2017, 08:17PM »

Such action will only serve to make Australia a bigger target in this escalating military crisis with North Korea.
Yup.  At 7.7 million km² you'd think your were a big enough target.
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« Reply #593 on: Aug 15, 2017, 08:54PM »

Yup.  At 7.7 million km² you'd think your were a big enough target.

A lot easier to hit than Guam Evil
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« Reply #594 on: Aug 15, 2017, 09:24PM »

Might take a while to find out it had been hit.
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« Reply #595 on: Aug 15, 2017, 11:28PM »

Might take a while to find out it had been hit.

I think not. They will be tracking anything coming our way from Alice Springs where we have a mainly Yank-run facility. It will be used as one of the monitors for any attack on Guam.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/pine-gap-spy-base-alice-springs-what-you-never-knew-about-topsecret-facility/news-story/b684b7e9ea355860379e50498f236486

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Gap

Knowing about missiles coming your way is one thing but Australia does not have a ballistic missile defence system. Yeah, RIGHT. 
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Grah

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« Reply #596 on: Aug 16, 2017, 07:57PM »

Knowing about missiles coming your way is one thing but Australia does not have a ballistic missile defence system. Yeah, RIGHT. 


Not to worry.  They don't really work anyway.
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« Reply #597 on: Aug 20, 2017, 03:23PM »

US National Security Agency documents leaked by NSA whistle-blower Edward Snowden show that the Pine Gap joint facility is being used extensively for locating targets for America's military strikes, including the lethal unmanned drone strikes in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen and Somalia. This might involve Australia in any war crimes that the US is accused of.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-20/leaked-documents-reveal-pine-gaps-crucial-role-in-us-drone-war/8815472

So it would seem that Australia might be higher up on the 'hit' list than even I thought in my last post. I think it is good that we are able to participate in this joint facility with our American friends as part of the ANZUS treaty. But I am still a bit worried about what the two crazies, Trump and Kim jong-un, might get up to in the Pacific region.   
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Grah

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« Reply #598 on: Aug 21, 2017, 01:05AM »

Well, I told you so. North Korea has attacked Australia's decision to participate in joint military exercises with the United States and South Korea, describing it as a "suicidal act".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-21/north-korea-warns-australia-over-suicidal-act/8828142
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« Reply #599 on: Aug 21, 2017, 06:37AM »

The two most unstable "leaders" on the planet bowing up with their nuclear arsenals ... what could go wrong?
 
Turns out this may become a problem ... who knew!?
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