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The Trombone ForumPractice BreakChit-ChatPurely Politics(Moderators: bhcordova, RedHotMama, BFW) What Trump's election means for the rest of the world
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Bimmerman
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« Reply #620 on: Nov 08, 2017, 04:40PM »

The interesting thing is that those NRA fanatics, and I use the term quite seriously, number about 3 million. Less than 1% of the total population.

I'd say a subset of the NRA member list are rabid fanatics on gun control. There are also lots of NRA members who are required to be members in order to join and use the local shooting range facilities. If you weren't an NRA member, you couldn't be a club member, so you held your nose and joined. I quit the NRA last year because I vehemently disagree with their obstructionist approach to even gun control discussions, and therefore had to give up my membership at the local gun ranges. It was an easy choice for me (racecars are way more fun) but I could see it being a much harder choice for folks who disagree with NRA dogma yet enjoy shooting enough to join a range.

So....yea. I wouldn't paint all the NRA members with the fanatic brush, although there are a LOT of their membership that it is applicable to.
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« Reply #621 on: Nov 08, 2017, 04:47PM »

I'd say a subset of the NRA member list are rabid fanatics on gun control. There are also lots of NRA members who are required to be members in order to join and use the local shooting range facilities. If you weren't an NRA member, you couldn't be a club member, so you held your nose and joined. I quit the NRA last year because I vehemently disagree with their obstructionist approach to even gun control discussions, and therefore had to give up my membership at the local gun ranges. It was an easy choice for me (racecars are way more fun) but I could see it being a much harder choice for folks who disagree with NRA dogma yet enjoy shooting enough to join a range.

So....yea. I wouldn't paint all the NRA members with the fanatic brush, although there are a LOT of their membership that it is applicable to.

The other side... the NRA actually started as a responsible and reasonable group to train gun owners in the use of their guns. And that tradition still has roots in modern day, even if much of it has gone to political posturing.

They developed many training courses, and to this day... most concealed carry, hunting courses, and the like are
a) required by local governments in order to get licensed
b) mostly or only offered by NRA chapters in localities

which basically amounts to government sanction of the NRA and it's propaganda.

There really should be something to say that attending training by a political lobbying organization should not be a requirement in order to obtain a government license.
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« Reply #622 on: Nov 08, 2017, 04:47PM »

A number like "3 Million NRA members" sounds almost democratic compared to the about 5000 richest US taxpayers the Republican tax cut bill is designed to benefit.

The NRA has pull not so much because of 3 Million members but because of the small number very wealthy members who fund its lobbying and public misinformation efforts.
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« Reply #623 on: Nov 08, 2017, 04:48PM »

A number like "3 Million NRA members" sounds almost democratic compared to the about 5000 richest US taxpayers the Republican tax cut bill is designed to benefit.

The NRA has pull not so much because of 3 Million members but because of the small number very wealthy members who fund its lobbying and public misinformation efforts.

A very insightful discussion on their methods and influence on how they keep power...

https://www.npr.org/2017/10/05/555859571/nra-backed-gun-laws-have-found-success-in-state-legislatures-across-the-u-s
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« Reply #624 on: Nov 08, 2017, 08:11PM »

The other side... the NRA actually started as a responsible and reasonable group to train gun owners in the use of their guns. And that tradition still has roots in modern day, even if much of it has gone to political posturing.

They developed many training courses, and to this day... most concealed carry, hunting courses, and the like are
a) required by local governments in order to get licensed
b) mostly or only offered by NRA chapters in localities

which basically amounts to government sanction of the NRA and it's propaganda.

There really should be something to say that attending training by a political lobbying organization should not be a requirement in order to obtain a government license.

I remember the NRA as being important to hunters and competitive target shooters.

During my lifetime the percentage of people who hunt has dropped from 10 to 6%.  I couldn't find numbers on target shooting, but with the development in areas that were once rural, it must be very hard to find ranges long enough to support rifle competition. 
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« Reply #625 on: Nov 08, 2017, 08:40PM »

It may be that no one really knows how many NRA members there are.  They have so many different levels of membership that their annual tax statements give only a rough guide of ups an downs.

They go up after a prominent massacre then trail off agian.


New NRA Tax Filing Shows Membership Revenues Dropped by $47 Million Following Sandy Hook Surge
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« Reply #626 on: Nov 09, 2017, 05:03AM »

The other side... the NRA actually started as a responsible and reasonable group to train gun owners in the use of their guns. And that tradition still has roots in modern day, even if much of it has gone to political posturing.
 
They developed many training courses, and to this day... most concealed carry, hunting courses, and the like are
a) required by local governments in order to get licensed
b) mostly or only offered by NRA chapters in localities
 
which basically amounts to government sanction of the NRA and it's propaganda.
 
There really should be something to say that attending training by a political lobbying organization should not be a requirement in order to obtain a government license.

Yup ... initially as American as the Boy Scouts and Apple Pie (which should of course be capitalized in this context--it's representing America, which is why kneeling while eating it is highly disrespectful to the flag, and of course veterans).
 
But the NRA is now all about using the social and psychological tactics of authoritarian religion to suppress sober thinking and feed the gun industry, and they're very good at it, wildly successful. Every news brief is about the most dire emergency gun owners and lovers of freedom and all American Values and our sacred way of life have ever faced! And the threat is to our fundamental freedom and even ability to keep and bear arms, the most sacred of civil liberties (because if you can't defend yourself and you're killed you obviously loose any and all rights along with absolutely everything else in your life--it's a pretty compelling argument when considered as a rhetorical island, and that's how such institutions function in terms of ideology--a kernel of truth is key to the most effective deceptions and manipulations). The standard response to any such news brief, of course, is to buy up as much of the "threatened" goods as you can fit into your budget ... Got to do it now, before it's too late and you'll never have the chance again! Never mind that it's never worked out that way before, for any of the many many most dire emergencies gun owners and lovers of freedom and all American Values and our sacred way of life have ever faced!.
 
But they're an overall good organization of course ...
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« Reply #627 on: Nov 09, 2017, 08:23PM »

From the [Manchester] Guardian:

“Trump was a loser in whichever direction you looked this week, both at home and abroad. As a candidate, Trump bragged about all the lessons he would teach China once he was president. He would stop China from “raping” the US economy and “toying” with the US over North Korea. He would bring trade cases against China in the US courts, slap heavy tariffs on Chinese goods and stop China manipulating its currency. He would ramp up the US military presence in the Asia-Pacific region. He might even renege on the holy of holies in Sino-American relations for the past 40 years – the One China doctrine that says Taiwan is a part of China, not a separate country.


Contrast that assertive Trump with the deflated one who made a joint appearance with Xi Jinping in Beijing on Thursday, as part of his five-nation Asian tour. In every respect, Trump’s script was so anodyne, and his conduct so docile, that they could have been drafted and prescribed by Xi himself. There were no threats on trade, no military posturing, and no mention of Taiwan or challenge to the One China policy.
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« Reply #628 on: Dec 04, 2017, 02:59PM »

Interesting, but not unexpected:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/04/supreme-court-allows-president-trumps-travel-ban-to-go-fully-into-effect.html
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« Reply #629 on: Dec 04, 2017, 08:34PM »

It has taken nearly a year for the Muslim (that's what he called it!) travel ban to come into effect and two of the nine justices were dissenting. Also, the San Francisco-based 9th US Circuit Court of Appeals and the 4th US Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond, Virginia, will be holding arguments on the legality of the ban this week. Remembering  that the ban was challenged in separate lawsuits by the state of Hawaii and the American Civil Liberties Union, maybe it is still not a goer.

Although not connected, talk of impeaching Trump has also been around for almost a year. Experts are now saying he could again be heading towards impeachment if obstruction of justice accusations are proven, following Trump admitting he knew his former national security adviser Michael Flynn had lied to the FBI. I don't suppose that Trump in likely to resign to avoid impeachment, as did Nixon, but what a great Christmas present it would be if the impeachment goes ahead. Good!
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« Reply #630 on: Dec 05, 2017, 07:56AM »

Don't hold your breath Grah!  The Republican Party is as corrupt as its leader.  There will be no impeachment charges until the Democrats have a majority, if then. 
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« Reply #631 on: Dec 05, 2017, 08:02AM »

Don't hold your breath Grah!  The Republican Party is as corrupt as its leader.  There will be no impeachment charges until the Democrats have a majority, if then. 

I seriously doubt the Democrats would impeach if they took back Congress.  That would rally the cockroaches to him while he cries victimhood.
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« Reply #632 on: Dec 05, 2017, 11:25AM »

"Soros has been busted secretly funding groups that are attempting to register convicted felons to vote en-masse, all so they can try to defeat Moore in the traditionally red state and log a victory for Democrats."

Nothing new here. Democrats just being democrats.
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« Reply #633 on: Dec 05, 2017, 11:30AM »

Where'd you find that one, Dusty?  American Stinker or Breitbart?
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« Reply #634 on: Dec 05, 2017, 11:37AM »

Where'd you find that one, Dusty?  American Stinker or Breitbart?

I don't remember since I read a lot of sites, but site sources don't change the facts.

Everbody knows how deep Soros and his funding is embedded in American politics, for the democrats.

 
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« Reply #635 on: Dec 05, 2017, 11:49AM »

I don't remember since I read a lot of sites, but site sources don't change the facts.

Everbody knows how deep Soros and his funding is embedded in American politics, for the democrats.

 

3 seconds of google show the usual Breitbart, Fox and Friends, etc type sources and fearmongering, without actually looking at the law in Alabama.

Here's one example of what Alabama itself has to say: http://www.pardons.state.al.us/Pardons.aspx

not ALL felonies in Alabama result in permanent revocation of voting rights. If you were NOT convicted of a felony "of moral turpitude" i.e. murder, rape, etc, then you CAN have your voting rights restored, legally, per the Alabama state constitution.

So....yea. Nothing shady about this, regardless of who is funding the push.

More explanation: https://www.aclualabama.org/en/voting-rights-restoration

https://thinkprogress.org/alabama-voting-restoration-86d82cc1c2d0/

relevant passage (emphasis mine):

"This week, Gov. Kay Ivey (R) is expected to sign a bill which will do just that. Under the Definition of Moral Turpitude Act, which passed both chambers of the legislature with bipartisan support, less than 50 specific felonies will justify disenfranchisement. Thousands of people are expected to have their rights restored."

Point being-- it is absolutely OK in Alabama for many disenfranchised felons to regain their voting rights and vote in the election, as only a few select felonies result in permanent disenfranchisement.
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« Reply #636 on: Dec 05, 2017, 02:13PM »

At least you people don't refute the Soros connection. LOL!

Proves democrats are desperate. LBJ used the dead to get elected. He was also a democrat for the young newbies.
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« Reply #637 on: Dec 05, 2017, 02:19PM »

I don't remember since I read a lot of sites, but site sources don't change the facts.

Everbody knows how deep Soros and his funding is embedded in American politics, for the democrats.

 
Let me know when DD speaks facts.

I won't hold my breath.
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« Reply #638 on: Dec 05, 2017, 02:37PM »



I won't hold my breath.

Even liberals need their Oxygen. LOL!
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« Reply #639 on: Dec 05, 2017, 02:59PM »

At least you people don't refute the Soros connection. LOL!

I honestly don't care WHO is financing a push to register voters. Everyone who is lawfully able to vote should do so! If the Kochs or Bannon were trying to register felons, or fundamentalist Christians, or Muslims, or ..., to vote, that would also be a good thing. Everyone should vote unless you've been convicted of a crime that your state considers sufficiently heinous to warrant disenfranchisement.

In Alabama's case, they had a nebulous legal definition for what crimes warranted disenfranchisement. Once that definition was clarified (by BOTH parties in Alabama), many previously disenfranchised felons were eligible to vote again, but had to sign up to vote again-- their rights were not automatically restored.

I did my research on the subject; have you?

Proves democrats are desperate. LBJ used the dead to get elected. He was also a democrat for the young newbies.

Or, the Republicans are desperate enough to throw their lots in behind an alleged child molester (with rather compelling evidence) rather than have a narrower majority in the Senate, and are fearmongering against anything that threatens their slim majority. I think it's rather telling that the Republican party, the arbiter of the nation's moral compass because jesus, has put party over country and over morals so astonishingly easily.
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