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Author Topic: Anti-Politickers  (Read 655 times)
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Baron von Bone
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« on: Dec 04, 2016, 02:33PM »

The Governing Cancer of Our Time
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BGuttman
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« Reply #1 on: Dec 04, 2016, 04:00PM »

I had a boss who used to say "politics is the art of the possible".  By that he meant that you work with the other side; you give a little and they give a little and you hammer out something that may not please both sides, but at least give them a feeling that they were accommodated to some extent.

The TEA Party and Trumpists are treating this like a zero-sum game: if you win something I must be losing.  In reality we should be looking for a win-win where I get something and you get something.

I suspect our friend Trump is going to have some problems when he starts negotiating with the real sharks out there.
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« Reply #2 on: Dec 04, 2016, 04:20PM »

Win-win is tough when there are no common goals.
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Robert Holmén

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« Reply #3 on: Dec 09, 2016, 03:24PM »

Win-win is tough when there are no common goals.
Really? Seems like the bases share a large amount of common goals. Just the leaders that work to polarize the positions and make their supporters seem so different.
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BGuttman
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« Reply #4 on: Dec 09, 2016, 03:31PM »

Then there are the polarizing interests that make recognizing the common interests impossible:

"I know you and I both want to let gays marry, but you are pro Abortion so I can't agree with you on anything."
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Bruce Guttman
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« Reply #5 on: Dec 09, 2016, 04:08PM »

Then there are the polarizing interests that make recognizing the common interests impossible:

"I know you and I both want to let gays marry, but you are pro Abortion so I can't agree with you on anything."
Sure, but that's still largely minority positions attempting to hijack a large amount of common ground shared by the majority... Just serves the leaders to focus on the divisions rather than common ground in our current environment. Allows them to milk lobbyists and companies to in turn fund their campaigns.
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BGuttman
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« Reply #6 on: Dec 09, 2016, 04:10PM »

Don't get me wrong.  I agree that there is a LOT of common ground between both sides.  But they have ideological blinders on and won't look to see it.
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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #7 on: Dec 09, 2016, 08:21PM »

Then there are the polarizing interests that make recognizing the common interests impossible:
 
"I know you and I both want to let gays marry, but you are pro Abortion so I can't agree with you on anything."

A better example would be I agree with you that everyone should have the equal right to marry ... someone of the opposite sex.
 
One of the major problems is the lack of any understanding or appreciation of critical thinking, and the Dunning-Kruger Effect. We have the poster boy for that problem cruising around in here providing incessant demonstrations.
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« Reply #8 on: Dec 10, 2016, 09:15PM »

According to all the tests and spectrums and scales, I am what is called a right-wing libertarian, or conservative libertarian (anti-authoritian). But I've supported Trump for the last 11 months. I don't think he's authoritarian at all, or am I misunderstanding the article?

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As the political scientist Matthew MacWilliams found, the one trait that best predicts whether you’re a Trump supporter is how high you score on tests that measure authoritarianism.

I don't think he's authoritarian at all, though I disagree somewhat on his methods for encouraging American trade (which I do support IN ADDITION to the free market). I agree with the author entirely in that he is an outsider, and that is why I like him. How he then draws the conclusion that makes him authoritarian Don't know

I don't understand how so many people stick up for the notion that all of the power should be in such a small group of people. And with all of the scandals and rhetoric and whatnot we hear about regularly, it seems that these politicians are such a nasty group of people. How many of them could possibly be good at heart? That's why I think we need outsiders, especially those who have no political background, although at the expense of experience (which is why of course there will always be politicans), because they are one of the people and they haven't been working directly with the people who have been running our country into the ground lately.

It feels like I'm rambling a bit but unlike many other arguments, I don't see the other side to this one.
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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #9 on: Dec 11, 2016, 07:48AM »

According to all the tests and spectrums and scales, I am what is called a right-wing libertarian, or conservative libertarian (anti-authoritian). But I've supported Trump for the last 11 months. I don't think he's authoritarian at all, or am I misunderstanding the article?

Sounds like a misunderstanding about authoritarianism. Authoritarian followers (the real problem) and authoritarian leaders (mostly just angry old codgers without followers) are far from the same. That's basically what it sounds like you're saying--Trump isn't like his followers, which is absolutely correct. Trump isn't an authoritarian follower, he seems to be a pretty clear authoritarian leader. "Authoritarians" as the term's generally used, really refers to authoritarian followers. W is what's called a "double high authoritarian" (high scores in both the authoritarian leader and follower scales), but my understanding is that's fairly rare (or at least it's rare for double highs to come into power), and he was well socialized from the inside of the political professional world, so he wasn't so much of a wild card, and, disconcertingly, more than likely a far more competent politician (even if for his time and certainly as compared to prior, he was arguably an anti-politicker).
 
I'd guess as an anti-authoritarian you see a lot of the same deplorable things in the Trumpistanian types (the population of his actual supporters rather than those who were really anti-Clinton or anti-establishment or for whatever reason other than somehow thinking he's actually a good candidate put their vote in the Trump column). I can't imagine what makes anyone think Trump is "one of the people" though (he eats Wendy's on his freakin' "plane"), unless they're completely ignoring the normal context of what that means in favor of an absolutely contrary and extremely pedantic notion of the term, which would constitute an equivocation.
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- Feeding a troll just gives it a platform and amplifies its voice.
 
- Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves.  - Richard Feynman
- He who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool.   - Confucius
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