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Author Topic: My 1st Euphonium! B&H Imperial  (Read 1183 times)
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LeoInFL
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« on: Dec 29, 2016, 04:21AM »

Horn is on it's way from across the pond. Boosey & Hawkes Imperial 3+1 compensating euphonium in silver plate. Been looking for a decent euph for a while now. Too bad I wasn't able to buy it in time to play the Bydlo. Hoping it's a large shank receiver, but won't know for sure until it arrives. Luckily I have a handful of medium shank mouthpieces just in case.



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Leo
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« Reply #1 on: Dec 29, 2016, 05:08AM »

Looks like quite an old one.... may have been originally high-pitch looking at the main tuning slide. Almost certain to be medium size shank. I have a mature example from the 1930's... they are great !!

Chris Stearn
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LeoInFL
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« Reply #2 on: Dec 29, 2016, 06:24AM »

My euph IQ is very low so please pardon my ignorance. When you mention the main tuning slide, does it look like an extension has been added to bring the horn down to modern pitch?  Are there any idiosyncrasies (special fingerings, tuning quirks, etc) that I should take note of regarding this Imperial?

I hope you don't mind, but I'll probably have many, many questions once it arrives.
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Leo
CFC Arts Symphony Orchestra
Orlando Concert Band (sub)

'54 Olds Custom (Olds 2)
    Yamaha YSL-684G (Carbonaria)
'05 Getzen 3047AFR  (Bousfield S)
'56 B&H Imperial Euph (Bach 6 1/2-E)
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« Reply #3 on: Dec 30, 2016, 12:47AM »

My euph IQ is very low so please pardon my ignorance. When you mention the main tuning slide, does it look like an extension has been added to bring the horn down to modern pitch?  Are there any idiosyncrasies (special fingerings, tuning quirks, etc) that I should take note of regarding this Imperial?

I believe that's what he was referring to, and no, just play like you normally would but watch with a tuner and mess around with different mouthpieces if something's too out of tune to lip.

My Boosey is from 1905 (I win!) and it's the same way--originally built in high pitch and lowered with extensions. Mine has a euro (medium) receiver, as does any B&H/Besson before 1974 (I think?). Personally, I like the euro shank, it has a very unique color. Would have been perfect for Bydlo.

Congrats on the new horn!
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« Reply #4 on: Dec 31, 2016, 08:16AM »

This should prove to be a great horn.  Adjust your slides using a tuner to see if you can get it to A440 if not a tech can easily extend the slide lengths as required.  I like the medium shank for Euphonium and most manufacturers make equivalent size Euro / medium Shank versions of most mouthpiece sizes.  This is a pro level horn that should last you a lifetime. Good luck with it!!
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« Reply #5 on: Dec 31, 2016, 11:49AM »

These old ones are better in tune than many of the more modern instruments, but you do have to learn to lip notes in tune in a way you don't on the trombone.

Chris Stearn
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« Reply #6 on: Dec 31, 2016, 09:27PM »

I like the medium shank for Euphonium and most manufacturers make equivalent size Euro / medium Shank versions of most mouthpiece sizes.

I like the euro shank as well, but where are you shopping?! I've spent hours upon hours researching so that I know what all of my options are, and have come up with about 5 manufacturers who sell euro shank mouthpieces. Leo, for your reference, these are: Denis Wick (easiest to find), Schilke, DEG (Brian Bowman series), Kelly (if you don't mind plastic or paying a ton for stainless steel), and Doug Elliot (also expensive).

I had an extremely difficult time finding a mouthpiece (finally settled on a Wick SM4M) because so few options are offered by most of these manufacturers. Schilke only makes the 51D I believe, all of the Brian Bowman pieces are the same size (about a 5G/51D) with different cup shapes, and Kelly only has 51D, which basically leaves DE or Wick for those of us who need larger mouthpieces.

I have a couple of other vintage pieces as well, a Vincent DFL ( Don't know) which is huge, probably about a 1-1/2G, and a Kosikup 10, which is a tad small for my tastes but close enough that I was able to work with it for a little while. These can be fround pretty cheap (if you can find them). I believe the Kosikup is the piece the Brian Bowman's are modeled after.
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« Reply #7 on: Jan 01, 2017, 01:22AM »

I was lucky enough to find an old Gardinelli mouthpiece... looks like a Helleburg on the outside... screw rim... about 5G at the rim but very, very deep... deeper than a Bach 1G. Works fantastically.
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Stewbones43

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« Reply #8 on: Jan 01, 2017, 04:55AM »

If anyone is interested in Euro-shank mouthpieces, I have 2 and nothing to fit them in so they would be cheap! Let me know.

Cheers

Stewbones
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« Reply #9 on: Jan 01, 2017, 06:19AM »

I like the euro shank as well, but where are you shopping?! I've spent hours upon hours researching so that I know what all of my options are, and have come up with about 5 manufacturers who sell euro shank mouthpieces. Leo, for your reference, these are: Denis Wick (easiest to find), Schilke, DEG (Brian Bowman series), Kelly (if you don't mind plastic or paying a ton for stainless steel), and Doug Elliot (also expensive).

Currently thirteen mfgs, according to this list.

Other mfgs whose stock linup include medium shank include Alliance, Marcinkiewicz, Yamaha (Y shank), and Warburton; there are likely others as well.
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« Reply #10 on: Jan 01, 2017, 08:14AM »

That's a funny lookin' trombone!
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« Reply #11 on: Jan 01, 2017, 08:48AM »

Currently thirteen mfgs, according to this list.

Other mfgs whose stock linup include medium shank include Alliance, Marcinkiewicz, Yamaha (Y shank), and Warburton; there are likely others as well.

I think the Yamaha "Y" shank is not the same as the Medium Euro shank otherwise Denis Wick would not have made 2 different sets, 6BM/6BY and 4AM/4AY.

I don't know what the difference is as I have never compared them.

Cheers

Stewbones
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BGuttman
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« Reply #12 on: Jan 01, 2017, 09:28AM »

All I know is that my Wick 4AY fits my Whaley-Royce G Bass very well and I get great intonation.  I believe the Y shank was originally intended for the Yamaha 321 Euphonium.
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Bruce Guttman
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« Reply #13 on: Jan 01, 2017, 02:27PM »

I think the Yamaha "Y" shank is not the same as the Medium Euro shank otherwise Denis Wick would not have made 2 different sets, 6BM/6BY and 4AM/4AY.

I don't know what the difference is as I have never compared them.

Cheers

Stewbones
The Y shanks are not medium or Euro shank.  They are designed specifically for the small shank Yamaha YEP-321 Euphonium.  The M models are true Medium shank.
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SBMaestro

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« Reply #14 on: Jan 01, 2017, 09:27PM »

If anyone is interested in Euro-shank mouthpieces, I have 2 and nothing to fit them in so they would be cheap! Let me know.

Cheers

Stewbones


PM sent regarding the Euro-shank mouthpieces, Stewbones.
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LeoInFL
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« Reply #15 on: Jan 05, 2017, 03:26PM »

Well the imperial survived the trip across the Atlantic. Original case, great player, quiet and fast valve action. The tuning slides have been modified/extended for modern pitch ("HP" is engraved above the serial number). It takes a medium shank mouthpiece so I'm using my small shank G&W Carbonaria with an adapter. Big sound, great intonation! Super happy!

More info:  11" bell, serial number puts build in 1956.
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Leo
CFC Arts Symphony Orchestra
Orlando Concert Band (sub)

'54 Olds Custom (Olds 2)
    Yamaha YSL-684G (Carbonaria)
'05 Getzen 3047AFR  (Bousfield S)
'56 B&H Imperial Euph (Bach 6 1/2-E)
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« Reply #16 on: Jan 06, 2017, 06:52PM »

Sounds like you got a great horn! One suggestion I have is to get a euro shank mouthpiece ASAP, those adapters cause a lot of wonky intonation problems, not to mention the gap change.
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2015 Wessex PE480 Alto-King 12C
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« Reply #17 on: Jan 06, 2017, 08:04PM »

All I know is that my Wick 4AY fits my Whaley-Royce G Bass very well and I get great intonation.  I believe the Y shank was originally intended for the Yamaha 321 Euphonium.

Not sure if there's a Yamaha "Y" shank, or if we're talking about Wick mouthpieces here. The Wick "Y"shank is a small bore shank - there may be a slight different taper, or backbore for the "Y" shank for Yamaha 321 Euphonium than for the standard small shank ("S"), but I'm not so sure that's true. In any case, Wick makes an "M" shank to fit the medium European style shank.

Most G Bass Trombones actually take a small shank, although I think there are some that take a medium shank.

Euphoniums take small, medium and large shanks, depending on make/model. I'm not sure if they still make this model, but there was a Hirsbrunner Euphonium that had interchangeable mouthpiece receivers (the start of the leadpipe, where the mouthpiece is accepted) to accept each of these different mouthpiece sizes. I remember trying one, and it was interesting to see how the different mouthpieces could change the sound - more Tuba-like with large shank, more small-bore baritone with the small shank, and brass band -like for the medium shank.

Jim Scott
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LeoInFL
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« Reply #18 on: Jan 07, 2017, 09:15AM »

Sounds like you got a great horn! One suggestion I have is to get a euro shank mouthpiece ASAP, those adapters cause a lot of wonky intonation problems, not to mention the gap change.
Yes, I found that out. I tried using the adapter but it just makes the shank too long. I just so happened to have a Bach 6 1/2-E that fit so that's what I've been using. The rim is a bit too small for what I'm used to so I'm having my tech turn down the large shank of a 4G I had laying around.
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Leo
CFC Arts Symphony Orchestra
Orlando Concert Band (sub)

'54 Olds Custom (Olds 2)
    Yamaha YSL-684G (Carbonaria)
'05 Getzen 3047AFR  (Bousfield S)
'56 B&H Imperial Euph (Bach 6 1/2-E)
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« Reply #19 on: Jan 07, 2017, 09:23AM »

Sounds like you need a Wick 4AM.  If you have the Doug Elliott system he makes a Euro (Medium) shank as well.
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Bruce Guttman
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