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The Trombone ForumTeaching & LearningBeginners and Returning Trombonists(Moderator: bhcordova) Using a trumpet for upper register development on the trombone?
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peteriley
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« on: Feb 26, 2017, 04:09PM »

Hi,

I've seen a couple of YouTube videos suggesting that playing the trumpet can aid in developing a higher register on the trombone. I've been teaching my kids trumpet so I've been playing it modestly, but I wondered what the consensus was on whether it's a good tool to use, or would my time be better spend on the trombone?

Thanks, Pete
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« Reply #1 on: Feb 26, 2017, 04:25PM »

I don't know the answer but my first thought is that trumpets and trombones have coexisted for a long, long time without anyone establishing that playing one will be of superior benefit in pursuit of the other.
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« Reply #2 on: Feb 26, 2017, 04:26PM »

Here a trumpeter....

Being able to play high on the trumpet will make you likely to be able to play high on trombone as well, just because you will have basic know-how of a working embouchure. But you'll still need to spend time to translate this to the trombone. If you are taking on trumpet just to improve your trombone playing it will be a long shot, I am not sure it is worth the effort.

IMHO You are better of to spend your time on tbone developing directly high chops on the desired instrument. If you want to double on trumpet, than it is a whole different story.

Keep in mind the following - though a professional trumpeter, I needed some 2 months to translate my embouchure skills on the tbone mouthpiece.
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« Reply #3 on: Feb 27, 2017, 05:15AM »

No.
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« Reply #4 on: Feb 27, 2017, 05:53AM »

Conceptualizing this whole scenario, I can foresee a potential problem. Granted, it might help to focus the upper register. But I'm afraid that that highly-focused concept might spill down to the lower registers and result in a much too focused core sound. That said, it's not unheard of for someone to double. I would just want to be prepared ahead of time for the possible risks. I'm personally concerned it would destabilize my embouchure and I certainly don't need that right now.

Looking at your profile, I can't determine your current level of proficiency. If you are a student and an amateur, I would suggest taking it up with your instructor. Chances are, he will probably advise you to either hold that thought for now, or possibly guide you in the process.

...Geezer
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« Reply #5 on: Feb 27, 2017, 06:18AM »

I play and perform on both, and becoming proficient on trumpet hasn't changed my high range on trombone much.
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« Reply #6 on: Feb 27, 2017, 10:17AM »

Just wanna add a couple cents, as I've been playing trumpet for almost 1.5 years now - the only noticeable difference in my trombone playing as a *result* of playing trumpet are that I can read Bb on trombone, and that my intonation improved a bit (though I'd also done a good number of exercises dedicated to improving intonation, so maybe not even that).
Lately my high range has gotten fuller and better core, but it's because I've done a lot of tone exercises on trombone, not trumpet :)

Good luck!
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« Reply #7 on: Feb 27, 2017, 12:08PM »

Hi,

I've seen a couple of YouTube videos suggesting that playing the trumpet can aid in developing a higher register on the trombone. I've been teaching my kids trumpet so I've been playing it modestly, but I wondered what the consensus was on whether it's a good tool to use, or would my time be better spend on the trombone?

Thanks, Pete


Better to use a bass trombone  :D

Leif
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peteriley
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« Reply #8 on: Feb 27, 2017, 12:12PM »

Thanks Geezer - I'll ask my teacher tonight. He's a prof. jazz trombonist but is playing trumpet (although I don't know if that's professionally) so he should have some insight.

I'll try to update my profile. I'm a returning player with aspirations and motivation to realize my full potential (such as that may be!)

Conceptualizing this whole scenario, I can foresee a potential problem. Granted, it might help to focus the upper register. But I'm afraid that that highly-focused concept might spill down to the lower registers and result in a much too focused core sound. That said, it's not unheard of for someone to double. I would just want to be prepared ahead of time for the possible risks. I'm personally concerned it would destabilize my embouchure and I certainly don't need that right now.

Looking at your profile, I can't determine your current level of proficiency. If you are a student and an amateur, I would suggest taking it up with your instructor. Chances are, he will probably advise you to either hold that thought for now, or possibly guide you in the process.

...Geezer
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peteriley
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« Reply #9 on: Feb 27, 2017, 12:17PM »

Hi Leif,

Hah! I've come from a six month stint playing bass trombone in a jazz band, then decided to audition for the 1st part. Now, I'm on the spot trying to play Ellington solos that start on a high Db! ah, I miss the lower register....

But, you might be serious? I have been told that playing low notes (middle F) at a whisper will help develop a puckered embouchure that allows you to play easily up to high F above high C. The guy telling me this not only demonstrated it, but had a beautiful tone too.

-Pete


Better to use a bass trombone  :D

Leif
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« Reply #10 on: Feb 27, 2017, 12:22PM »

My upper range took off after I started doing lip slurs between the  Bb partial on the open horn and the  F partial on the F side of the horn.

All of a sudden  (after working on this low register) my upper register was rockin.
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« Reply #11 on: Feb 27, 2017, 12:33PM »

Thanks Geezer - I'll ask my teacher tonight. He's a prof. jazz trombonist but is playing trumpet (although I don't know if that's professionally) so he should have some insight.

I'll try to update my profile. I'm a returning player with aspirations and motivation to realize my full potential (such as that may be!)


I have my own master instructor whom I follow, but I would be curious as to what your instructor advises you to do or not do. He knows you best.

...Geezer
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trombonemetal

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« Reply #12 on: Feb 27, 2017, 01:14PM »

I think playing trumpet in moderation can teach you some things about embouchure but I do not think it will help your trombone playing directly. It might hurt it. The two things are different.

I play trumpet for about ten minutes a week while teaching and it has helped me figure some things out about resonance, air speed, and finding the center of the slot on my trombones. I once took a lesson with Christian Griego where he suggested buzzing on a trumpet mouthpiece (just a little bit) for this very reason. He has the most resonant beautiful free buzz I've ever heard in my life.

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« Reply #13 on: Feb 28, 2017, 07:48PM »

Hi Trombonemetal,

I play a little more with the kids but keep things below middle C, where things are comfortable. Since I'm not straining to reach the notes, I'm guessing this is fine. Whether I can push further though and make it useful for the trombone, I'm getting the impression not. More time on the trombone is probably better.

Cheers, Pete
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« Reply #14 on: Mar 01, 2017, 07:46AM »

My upper range took off after I started doing lip slurs between the  Bb partial on the open horn and the  F partial on the F side of the horn.

All of a sudden  (after working on this low register) my upper register was rockin.

This idea fascinates me.  I will add more such lip slurs into my routine.  Whether or not it helps my high range, it sure won't hurt my low range.  I probably under-practice low register stuff.
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« Reply #15 on: Mar 01, 2017, 08:13AM »

I gained 30 pounds in the past 6 months and added a whole lot of muscle bulk to my frame. I was concerned it might have made me a bit muscle-bound in my chops, so I'm taking flexibility exercises a LOT more seriously now - just in case and it's good for us anyway.

And the point is that if we pick up a trumpet for training purposes on our high-range, it might be wise to include some more work on flexibility on the trombone.

...Geezer
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« Reply #16 on: Mar 01, 2017, 09:13AM »

I don't know about trumpet, but I played tuba for a long time, and when I switched to bass trombone, my lower register was okay (some translation issues, nothing more) but my high range was suffering. I picked up a tuba last month (about a year between the last time I picked up a tuba) and I played everything an octave up. My comfortable range went from an F and occasional G on a Bb horn, to an Eb above the staff.

Playing trombone helped my high range on tuba, and I'd assume it'd work for trumpet to trombone.
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peteriley
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« Reply #17 on: Mar 01, 2017, 02:42PM »

Right, that makes sense. But I've heard both sides: low notes help in the higher register, high notes obviously help. I can already see a danger of relying on the rim of the trumpet mouthpiece to pin my lips and help with the higher notes. Even between a 6-1/2 AL and 4G on trombone I notice the difference (in fact I think I'm using the 6-1/2 AL as a bit of a crutch...but that's a different whine!)

Thanks for the comments!

Pete
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trombonemetal

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« Reply #18 on: Mar 01, 2017, 03:20PM »

I think that doing anything well can teach you about playing well in the high register of the trombone.

What I'm taking away from the other responses on this thread is this: "I did a thing that is different from playing high trombone, and it helped my high trombone playing."

I think that learning to sail or make sushi or something would probably help too if it encourages flexibility of thought and practice. I know this may seem like dumb advice, but every breakthrough I've had with my playing has been unexpected (if it was expected, if it was obvious, we would do it immediately instead of taking years to learn something). 

So by all means play trumpet, but keep a flexible and curious mindset about it. I think that is the key to "cross training" trombone issues.
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« Reply #19 on: Mar 01, 2017, 05:45PM »

I don't know about trumpet, but I played tuba for a long time, and when I switched to bass trombone, my lower register was okay (some translation issues, nothing more) but my high range was suffering. I picked up a tuba last month (about a year between the last time I picked up a tuba) and I played everything an octave up. My comfortable range went from an F and occasional G on a Bb horn, to an Eb above the staff.

Playing trombone helped my high range on tuba, and I'd assume it'd work for trumpet to trombone.

I haven't played *enough* tuba, but from what I HAVE done, the diffferen between a tenor or bass trombone mouthpiece and a tuba mouthpiece seems far smaller than that of a trombone and a trumpet mouthpiece. I find that a lot of techniques involving the embouchure carry well between the low brass, but not as directly to the high brass.

I dunno - playing trumpet HAS actually additionally helped me get more focus towards the center of my embouchure, which makes playing "super notes" (I'm thinking C - F or G above high Bb) a simpler task involving just tongue level and air speed.
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