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Baron von Bone
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« on: Jan 23, 2017, 09:13AM »

Kellyanne Conway gets the quote of the weekend!
 
I was joyfully surprised that she screwed up so badly. She does what she does very well, and while that's quite the opposite of a compliment it earns her a great deal of respect at the same time--or a form of respect, anyway. But her heavily armored facade just developed a huge crack, and along with it the shield of confusion and disgust and disbelief she's done so well at constructing, so it'll be interesting to see what comes of it. Her response and The Trumpistanian response is predictable of course, but what about the rest of the world that isn't playing their Alternative Facts™ game? And what about those who thought it was funny to play along, but are somehow only just now getting a glimpse of the obvious for the first time?

In any case I thought that quote was so golden it needed its own topic, and as we all know there'll be a lot more of this Orwellian BS to go in here over the next ... however long The Donald's Real TV™ cartoon presidency lasts.
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« Reply #1 on: Jan 23, 2017, 09:52AM »

Is it possible that we will all give in to Trump fatigue and, eventually not notice what he and his flunkies say? He might blunder through, leaving a mess for the 46th president to clean up.
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BGuttman
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« Reply #2 on: Jan 23, 2017, 10:01AM »

... leaving a mess for the 46th president to clean up.

There's no doubt about that, whichever side of the political spectrum Prez 46 comes from.
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Bruce Guttman
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« Reply #3 on: Jan 23, 2017, 10:14AM »

I'm envisioning the Inaugural Address of the 46th President...

Quote
"Let's all just say that none of this ever happened, OK?..."
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Robert Holmén

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« Reply #4 on: Jan 23, 2017, 10:17AM »

Theater of the Absurd

I hope the Trump voters are proud of what they have done.
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robcat2075

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« Reply #5 on: Jan 23, 2017, 10:33AM »

Theater of the Absurd

I hope the Trump voters are proud of what they have done.

They are. I can hear pride singing from the trailer park.

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Robert Holmén

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« Reply #6 on: Jan 23, 2017, 11:10AM »

They are only 3 days on the job.  More of the unbelievable to follow...  Confused Yeah, RIGHT.

Hey, maybe we could solicit the White House for a grant to go on a "Alternative Fact" finding mission into global climate change?   Good!
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« Reply #7 on: Jan 23, 2017, 03:25PM »

I think the Paris climate change agreement will go the same way as the TPP. So sad to see Obama and his team replaced by that idiot's dopey mob.

The "Alternative Facts" interviews were shown on Aussie TV without any comment whatsoever. But you could see all the announcers doing these:

 
Yeah, RIGHT.  Yeah, RIGHT.  Yeah, RIGHT.  Yeah, RIGHT.

.... as was the audience.
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« Reply #8 on: Jan 23, 2017, 03:59PM »

As usual, not much enlightenment from this forum.

Alt-facts == Like Paul Harvey used to say "Here's the rest of the story".

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« Reply #9 on: Jan 23, 2017, 04:09PM »

I'd like to see DD after his boss pays him half the usual salary and then insists... it's a raise!

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Robert Holmén

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« Reply #10 on: Jan 23, 2017, 04:12PM »

Well...we do have the Secret Service looking into madonna .
Ashley Judd...Good Grief!

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badger

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« Reply #11 on: Jan 23, 2017, 04:14PM »

DD is self employed.
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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #12 on: Jan 23, 2017, 04:23PM »

Hopefully Trump will teach the adults in the US that we have to take the dishonesty of the Alt-Right types seriously, because as we're seeing now they can impose the fruits of their dishonesty on the rest of us, and they have no compunction against doing so--in fact they're eager to do so. These are people who are amoral and ethically and rationally chaotic and yet perceive themselves as moral and ethical and rational models. They're not going to accept criticism or correction. They simply have to be contained and prevented from imposing their foolishness upon others.
 
It starts with the media, but the media is all based upon the news market. We know without any doubt at all that we have a significant population of the amoral and fundamentally dishonest (many of whom apparently genuinely don't understand what honesty actually is), and they just have to be controlled--minimum adult standards of ethics and reason and social behavior and such just have to be imposed upon them, and their weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth over it just has to be ignored. It is, in fact and in many ways, very much like having a significant population of full grown young children we have to parent.
 
Bottom line--political correctness ends where insistent dishonesty and civically harmful social behavior begins. At that point is has to be challenged and suppressed by the populace but not the establishment. We can't value politeness over honesty. It's obvious, but a whole lot of people haven't learned that--probably still haven't. Hopefully we don't have to do worse than Trump before they'll figure it out.
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« Reply #13 on: Jan 23, 2017, 04:24PM »

DD is self employed.

Even better.  I'd like to see DD after a client pays him 1/3 of the agreed amount and tells him that's all he should. Alternative Fact!


Donald has done that to numerous vendors.

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Robert Holmén

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« Reply #14 on: Jan 23, 2017, 05:09PM »

As usual, not much enlightenment from this forum.

Alt-facts == Like Paul Harvey used to say "Here's the rest of the story".



Enlightenment?

So you are okay with lies from Trump and his regime? I thought lying was a Christian sin.

Blatant dishonesty. Yet another flaw of Trump that his supporters accept.

Go figure
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« Reply #15 on: Jan 23, 2017, 07:29PM »

Liberals and democrats lecturing others on lying?

That's laughable.
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BGuttman
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« Reply #16 on: Jan 23, 2017, 07:53PM »

Liberals and democrats lecturing others on lying?

That's laughable.

That statement is even more laughable.

Which party's people established the lie that Saddam Hussein had Weapons of Mass Destruction?  Or that he had a role in the hijackings of 2001?

Which party's people claimed that Benghazi was an ISIS attack?  (It was a riot, but not from ISIS, and no, it wasn't due to a video on the Internet.)

Which party established that a Presidential dalliance was a matter of National Security justifying impeachment?

I'm not going to give the Democrats a free pass, but both sides are dirty.
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Bruce Guttman
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« Reply #17 on: Jan 23, 2017, 08:41PM »

I am not surprised that DD doesn't address Trump's teams lies except to say (in effect) "oh yeah, well you lie too!" and then viciously attack liberals/democrats as if we were somehow evil.



Theater of the Absurd.

 Yeah, RIGHT.
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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #18 on: Jan 23, 2017, 08:58PM »

I am not surprised that DD doesn't address Trump's teams lies except to say (in effect) "oh yeah, well you lie too!" and then viciously attack liberals/democrats as if we were somehow evil.
 
Theater of the Absurd.

 ... and of the dishonest, or the selectively vapid, and of the intellectually and morally cowardly.
 
Yup.
 
There be authoritarians here, and we need to keep them in check. They're incorrigible and amoral, so they have to be kept in check. Give them too much credence, too much of a voice, and we're now seeing the kinds of toxic effects they have on a society and the world. They're a social cancer that can be easily contained and managed if you don't feed it, but harmful if you do--potentially even deadly if you can't stop yourself.
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« Reply #19 on: Jan 23, 2017, 09:17PM »

...... and then viciously attack liberals/democrats as if we were somehow evil.



Theater of the Absurd.

 Yeah, RIGHT.

I said "Liberals and democrats lecturing others on lying?", and you call that vicious?


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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #20 on: Jan 23, 2017, 09:25PM »

Dunno, I do often have to wonder if it's not really selective, but rather just plain and simple vapidity ...
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« Reply #21 on: Jan 25, 2017, 03:46AM »

Liberals and democrats lecturing others on lying?

That's laughable.

I'm neither a liberal nor a Democrat, and it bothers me if the President lies or if someone does it on his behalf. I really don't think I'll get used to it.

By the way, if you're going to criticize Democrats, you should probably capitalize it. You probably pretend to be a democrat.
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« Reply #22 on: Jan 25, 2017, 03:49AM »

Which party's people claimed that Benghazi was an ISIS attack?  (It was a riot, but not from ISIS, and no, it wasn't due to a video on the Internet.)

For the record, I think they connected it to al Qaeda. Still false. It was actually not exactly a riot, either, but an attack orchestrated by a local warlord, who used the video as a recruiting tool. The initial accounts from the administration and its critics wore both at least partly wrong.
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« Reply #23 on: Jan 25, 2017, 04:41AM »

For the record, I think they connected it to al Qaeda. Still false. It was actually not exactly a riot, either, but an attack orchestrated by a local warlord, who used the video as a recruiting tool. The initial accounts from the administration and its critics wore both at least partly wrong.

Still not quite right. There were riots going on, and they were used as cover by the attackers. And, there were riots over the video going on throughout the Arab world that day. The US Embassy in Egypt was almost over run. Benghazi was a horrible event, but it was a minor event in the overall scheme of the world and US foreign relations.
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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #24 on: Jan 25, 2017, 08:35AM »

For the record, I think they connected it to al Qaeda. Still false. It was actually not exactly a riot, either, but an attack orchestrated by a local warlord, who used the video as a recruiting tool. The initial accounts from the administration and its critics wore both at least partly wrong.

 ... which is what rational adults who understand honesty at least fairly well expect with intelligence on such an event, particularly early on.
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« Reply #25 on: Jan 25, 2017, 08:43AM »

This article, about how our social media data and browsing habits are being mined on an unprecedented scale and with unprecedented intensity, and how the same company doing so worked on behalf of both Brexit and Trump, is deeply alarming. It all rings very true - one asks oneself how such a large number of people became radicalised into supporting two such unpalatable options, and the supplying of individually tailored propaganda feels intuitively like a good fit for that. It is not just that people disagree - that happens all the time - but that something has been done to suppress rationality. Flooding people with feel-good confirmation bias the whole time will do that job...

One moral: Never add a Facebook app that asks for access to any data.
Another moral: The political hard right have woken up to the potential of all this quicker than anyone else.
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Dave Taylor

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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #26 on: Jan 25, 2017, 09:00AM »

Another moral: The political hard right have woken up to the potential of all this quicker than anyone else.

There's a reason for that.
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« Reply #27 on: Jan 25, 2017, 09:17AM »

Well, moderates don't tend to be susceptible to authoritarian modes of thought, so there's always a risk of it being "hard <something>" that grasps the tiller when something this game-changing comes into view. I suppose these "alt-right" types were the extremists best placed to effect a swing in public opinion while also having enough tech-savvy to understand both that it could now be done and who could do it. There's no philosophical reason e.g. the hard left couldn't have done the same (Joe Stalin would approve) - but the extreme left has been very much in disarray for decades - as very sadly are also more moderate leftward options across the globe at the moment. The left came to the centre, but the right has pushed out further from where it was. There have been many causes of this shift of the Overton Window, but the effect is that the particular type of bastard that has grabbed control was the one best placed to do so.

The rest of politics is going to have to start playing this game too, else they'll never win anything again.

I have seen it suggested that the people who pushed Trump were the same people who pushed GamerGate, an equally puzzling piece of far right nastiness, though one very much more easily dismissed. Same memes, same techniques, same people. Can't vouch for that myself - it's not my world - but I have seen it said by people for whom it is their world.
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Dave Taylor

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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #28 on: Jan 25, 2017, 10:52AM »

Well, moderates don't tend to be susceptible to authoritarian modes of thought, so there's always a risk of it being "hard <something>" that grasps the tiller when something this game-changing comes into view. I suppose these "alt-right" types were the extremists best placed to effect a swing in public opinion while also having enough tech-savvy to understand both that it could now be done and who could do it. There's no philosophical reason e.g. the hard left couldn't have done the same (Joe Stalin would approve) - but the extreme left has been very much in disarray for decades - as very sadly are also more moderate leftward options across the globe at the moment.
Well, authoritarianism is a significant element in militant leftist regimes ... not a lot of that going on in the West these days though, eh (the time frame of "these days" being defined rather geologically)?
 
The left came to the centre, but the right has pushed out further from where it was. There have been many causes of this shift of the Overton Window, but the effect is that the particular type of bastard that has grabbed control was the one best placed to do so.
That's sacrilege in Alternative Facts™ circles, man! Be careful or you may find yourself the focus of a harassment campaign.
 
The rest of politics is going to have to start playing this game too, else they'll never win anything again.

I have seen it suggested that the people who pushed Trump were the same people who pushed GamerGate, an equally puzzling piece of far right nastiness, though one very much more easily dismissed. Same memes, same techniques, same people. Can't vouch for that myself - it's not my world - but I have seen it said by people for whom it is their world.
Hadn't heard about GamerGate ... those things always strike me in terms of how incredibly fragile one would have to be to suffer such trauma to go so ballistic over such slight provocation--provocation being far too strong a word. Perceived sleights works but needs a modifier. Paranoia/fear-induced perceptions of threat is just unwieldy, even though much more accurate, and simple. Intellectual/ideological cowardice is the most accurate, but blunt accuracy (too much fact) creates all the more weeping and wailing and gnashing of those frail, chattering teeth. I think, though, that with this crowd that's pretty much what has to happen--they're like irrationality and Alternative Fact™ terminators (a very important difference do remember being that these guys run on fear). If they can't escape enough of reality they have to basically go underground and/or shrink away into silence (or grow a post-infant backbone, but that obviously ain't gonna happen).
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