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Author Topic: Alternative Facts™  (Read 2164 times)
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Baron von Bone
Fear is the Mind-Killer.

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« Reply #20 on: Jan 23, 2017, 09:25PM »

Dunno, I do often have to wonder if it's not really selective, but rather just plain and simple vapidity ...
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« Reply #21 on: Jan 25, 2017, 03:46AM »

Liberals and democrats lecturing others on lying?

That's laughable.

I'm neither a liberal nor a Democrat, and it bothers me if the President lies or if someone does it on his behalf. I really don't think I'll get used to it.

By the way, if you're going to criticize Democrats, you should probably capitalize it. You probably pretend to be a democrat.
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« Reply #22 on: Jan 25, 2017, 03:49AM »

Which party's people claimed that Benghazi was an ISIS attack?  (It was a riot, but not from ISIS, and no, it wasn't due to a video on the Internet.)

For the record, I think they connected it to al Qaeda. Still false. It was actually not exactly a riot, either, but an attack orchestrated by a local warlord, who used the video as a recruiting tool. The initial accounts from the administration and its critics wore both at least partly wrong.
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"What gets us into trouble is not what we don't know, it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." --Mark Twain
Russ White

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« Reply #23 on: Jan 25, 2017, 04:41AM »

For the record, I think they connected it to al Qaeda. Still false. It was actually not exactly a riot, either, but an attack orchestrated by a local warlord, who used the video as a recruiting tool. The initial accounts from the administration and its critics wore both at least partly wrong.

Still not quite right. There were riots going on, and they were used as cover by the attackers. And, there were riots over the video going on throughout the Arab world that day. The US Embassy in Egypt was almost over run. Benghazi was a horrible event, but it was a minor event in the overall scheme of the world and US foreign relations.
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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #24 on: Jan 25, 2017, 08:35AM »

For the record, I think they connected it to al Qaeda. Still false. It was actually not exactly a riot, either, but an attack orchestrated by a local warlord, who used the video as a recruiting tool. The initial accounts from the administration and its critics wore both at least partly wrong.

 ... which is what rational adults who understand honesty at least fairly well expect with intelligence on such an event, particularly early on.
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- Feeding a troll just gives it a platform and amplifies its voice.
 
- Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves.  - Richard Feynman
- He who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool.   - Confucius
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« Reply #25 on: Jan 25, 2017, 08:43AM »

This article, about how our social media data and browsing habits are being mined on an unprecedented scale and with unprecedented intensity, and how the same company doing so worked on behalf of both Brexit and Trump, is deeply alarming. It all rings very true - one asks oneself how such a large number of people became radicalised into supporting two such unpalatable options, and the supplying of individually tailored propaganda feels intuitively like a good fit for that. It is not just that people disagree - that happens all the time - but that something has been done to suppress rationality. Flooding people with feel-good confirmation bias the whole time will do that job...

One moral: Never add a Facebook app that asks for access to any data.
Another moral: The political hard right have woken up to the potential of all this quicker than anyone else.
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Dave Taylor

(me, not the other one)
Baron von Bone
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« Reply #26 on: Jan 25, 2017, 09:00AM »

Another moral: The political hard right have woken up to the potential of all this quicker than anyone else.

There's a reason for that.
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- Feeding a troll just gives it a platform and amplifies its voice.
 
- Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves.  - Richard Feynman
- He who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool.   - Confucius
MoominDave

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« Reply #27 on: Jan 25, 2017, 09:17AM »

Well, moderates don't tend to be susceptible to authoritarian modes of thought, so there's always a risk of it being "hard <something>" that grasps the tiller when something this game-changing comes into view. I suppose these "alt-right" types were the extremists best placed to effect a swing in public opinion while also having enough tech-savvy to understand both that it could now be done and who could do it. There's no philosophical reason e.g. the hard left couldn't have done the same (Joe Stalin would approve) - but the extreme left has been very much in disarray for decades - as very sadly are also more moderate leftward options across the globe at the moment. The left came to the centre, but the right has pushed out further from where it was. There have been many causes of this shift of the Overton Window, but the effect is that the particular type of bastard that has grabbed control was the one best placed to do so.

The rest of politics is going to have to start playing this game too, else they'll never win anything again.

I have seen it suggested that the people who pushed Trump were the same people who pushed GamerGate, an equally puzzling piece of far right nastiness, though one very much more easily dismissed. Same memes, same techniques, same people. Can't vouch for that myself - it's not my world - but I have seen it said by people for whom it is their world.
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Dave Taylor

(me, not the other one)
Baron von Bone
Fear is the Mind-Killer.

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Location: Athens, GA (USA)
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« Reply #28 on: Jan 25, 2017, 10:52AM »

Well, moderates don't tend to be susceptible to authoritarian modes of thought, so there's always a risk of it being "hard <something>" that grasps the tiller when something this game-changing comes into view. I suppose these "alt-right" types were the extremists best placed to effect a swing in public opinion while also having enough tech-savvy to understand both that it could now be done and who could do it. There's no philosophical reason e.g. the hard left couldn't have done the same (Joe Stalin would approve) - but the extreme left has been very much in disarray for decades - as very sadly are also more moderate leftward options across the globe at the moment.
Well, authoritarianism is a significant element in militant leftist regimes ... not a lot of that going on in the West these days though, eh (the time frame of "these days" being defined rather geologically)?
 
The left came to the centre, but the right has pushed out further from where it was. There have been many causes of this shift of the Overton Window, but the effect is that the particular type of bastard that has grabbed control was the one best placed to do so.
That's sacrilege in Alternative Facts™ circles, man! Be careful or you may find yourself the focus of a harassment campaign.
 
The rest of politics is going to have to start playing this game too, else they'll never win anything again.

I have seen it suggested that the people who pushed Trump were the same people who pushed GamerGate, an equally puzzling piece of far right nastiness, though one very much more easily dismissed. Same memes, same techniques, same people. Can't vouch for that myself - it's not my world - but I have seen it said by people for whom it is their world.
Hadn't heard about GamerGate ... those things always strike me in terms of how incredibly fragile one would have to be to suffer such trauma to go so ballistic over such slight provocation--provocation being far too strong a word. Perceived sleights works but needs a modifier. Paranoia/fear-induced perceptions of threat is just unwieldy, even though much more accurate, and simple. Intellectual/ideological cowardice is the most accurate, but blunt accuracy (too much fact) creates all the more weeping and wailing and gnashing of those frail, chattering teeth. I think, though, that with this crowd that's pretty much what has to happen--they're like irrationality and Alternative Fact™ terminators (a very important difference do remember being that these guys run on fear). If they can't escape enough of reality they have to basically go underground and/or shrink away into silence (or grow a post-infant backbone, but that obviously ain't gonna happen).
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- Feeding a troll just gives it a platform and amplifies its voice.
 
- Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves.  - Richard Feynman
- He who knows not and knows not that he knows not is a fool.   - Confucius
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