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Author Topic: Our unbalanced POTUS  (Read 72007 times)
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robcat2075

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« Reply #2340 on: Sep 23, 2017, 05:21PM »

It might be all Kaepernick's fault (a Rasmussen poll says so!), but if the NFL players beating their family members, murdering their friends, the brain damage from concussions, the preposterous salaries and the taxpayer-funded welfare for rich team owners hasn't hurt the NFL, what are the chances that a guy sitting for the national anthem has done it? A guy who is not on anyone's team now.

But the NFL was in decline before anyone knew what a Kaepernick was. I'll note that TV ratings for professional sports have been declining for years. I suspect that the NFL has finally reached the over-saturation point that Baseball did.



« Last Edit: Sep 23, 2017, 10:28PM by robcat2075 » Logged

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Russ White

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« Reply #2341 on: Sep 23, 2017, 06:45PM »

Oh, there you go getting all factual.

I just became an even bigger Miami Dolphins fan........

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/dolphins-owner-defends-players-protest-213205464.html
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Ellrod

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« Reply #2342 on: Sep 23, 2017, 09:55PM »

"It might be all Kaepernick's fault (a Rasmussen poll says so!), but if the NFL players beating their family members, murdering their friends, the brain damage from concussions, the preposterous salaries and the taxpayer-funded welfare for rich team owners hasn't hurt the NFL, what are the chances that a guy sitting for the national anthem has done it? A guy who is not on anyone's team now."

Very well put.
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« Reply #2343 on: Sep 24, 2017, 02:08AM »


Well, this poll is from last year, and Kaepernick's not in the league.

Trump (who seems to think it's job to run the NFL instead of being president) says that they're losing ratings because the game isn't rough enough. Some people have quit watching over the negative publicity from widespread brain damage to the players. Others are mad at the officiating of the new rules on hard hits. A double-edged sword.

I have tons of liberal and conservative facebook friends. I'm seeing posts from people boycotting because of the 'knee-taking' protests, and others boycotting because no team would take Kaep. Another double-edged sword.
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« Reply #2344 on: Sep 24, 2017, 02:10AM »

Interesting how the same people who take offense at players sitting out the anthem still defend people who fly the Confederate flag.

By any reasonable standard, the latter seems much, much worse. Failing to stand during a song, vs. flying a traitorous enemy flag.
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Russ White

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« Reply #2345 on: Sep 24, 2017, 04:47AM »

Interesting how the same people who take offense at players sitting out the anthem still defend people who fly the Confederate flag.

By any reasonable standard, the latter seems much, much worse. Failing to stand during a song, vs. flying a traitorous enemy flag.

Well, there's that......
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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #2346 on: Sep 24, 2017, 07:36AM »

Well, this poll is from last year, and Kaepernick's not in the league.
 
Trump (who seems to think it's job to run the NFL instead of being president) says that they're losing ratings because the game isn't rough enough. Some people have quit watching over the negative publicity from widespread brain damage to the players. Others are mad at the officiating of the new rules on hard hits. A double-edged sword.
As our first cartoon president, and our first "president" lacking any apparent understanding of the established legal application of the Constitution or its principles, there's no surprise that he's the poster boy for intellectual cowardice--the refusal to honestly consider ideas he doesn't like/what doesn't affirm what he wants to think and believe (i.e. he can't/won't perceive much less consider anything he doesn't want to perceive or consider--has no functional or even rational means of determining what's real and true has little if anything to do with his "determination" of what's real and true). As with the self-named Alt-Right™ with their self-inflicted associated and especially relevant descriptor Alt-Facts™, The Donald has virtually no tools for making sound assessments on most important matters. It's all about his personal investments in what should be.
 
His true base is also made up of ideologues who only see what they think should be true and have little sense of the difference between what we'd like to think and what is, much less how to go about determining which is which or to what extent. They live in a very simple, black and white, two-dimensional world that's a personal and often subcultural bubble existing only in intracranial and communal realities, as detached from the rest of the cosmos as its occupants can manage. Because they think something should be true according to their own sentiments, they simply decide it is in fact true, and they're certainly not shy about trying to impose legislation and policy based upon that detached, purely ideological world upon the rest of us. This is a highly toxic, harmful and self-destructive adolescent thinking pattern borne by privilege at the top, ideological privilege in the poor and self-destructive followers, all of which is fueled by self-righteousness and a resulting sense of divinely sanctioned entitlement--more or less the opposite of the predominant Christian notion of service- and humility-based Christian values, and the opposite of how decent neighbors behave in even marginally healthy communities.
 
I have tons of liberal and conservative facebook friends. I'm seeing posts from people boycotting because of the 'knee-taking' protests, and others boycotting because no team would take Kaep. Another double-edged sword.
The Donald loves conflict and obviously relishes creating it on as grand a scale as he can (one of the many many traits that each alone, in a healthy society disqualify him for the office he's temporarily managed to occupy by harnessing well developed and nurtured social illness). But he's also unifying those who aren't his base and who [i[]can[/i] think functionally about what is vs. what ought to be and who aren't willing to embrace utter intellectual and ethical depravity, as well as his base. I expect we may see a clear demonstration at some point that his biggest miscalculation (assuming he cares of course and doesn't just want to entertain himself with all the conflict with him at its center), again ego-driven, is that his true base is probably only 20% to 25% of the population. The rest of us haven't suffered the kind of abuse that sadly produces authoritarians (sincerely sad, not The Donald's patronizing and judgmental and completely disingenuous sad).
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gregs70

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« Reply #2347 on: Sep 24, 2017, 09:30AM »

Interesting how the same people who take offense at players sitting out the anthem still defend people who fly the Confederate flag.

By any reasonable standard, the latter seems much, much worse. Failing to stand during a song, vs. flying a traitorous enemy flag.

The bigger hypocracy to me is that fans and teams seem to not care about DUIs, domestic abuse, drug convictions, animal abuse, etc. with the players but get out of shape about a player doing a peaceful protest.
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« Reply #2348 on: Sep 24, 2017, 09:50AM »

The bigger hypocracy to me is that fans and teams seem to not care about DUIs, domestic abuse, drug convictions, animal abuse, etc. with the players but get out of shape about a player doing a peaceful protest.

Yep. By Golly, nothing better get in the way of their team winning! Ethics be damned.  :cry:
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robcat2075

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« Reply #2349 on: Sep 24, 2017, 11:07AM »

Just as a tangential aside, I was reading about the Byzantine empire and they had a sports/politics problem also. Apparently the big  spectator sport c.500-600 was chariot-racing.

The chariot racing wasn't an individual sport like horse-racing is today, they had organized teams and these teams were owned by and identified with particular rich people. These rich people also tended to have widely known opinions about the issues of the day.

A dynamic built up where you became a fan (including wearing the team colors) of a certain team to also express your support for the owner's political agenda and vice versa, largely because it was one of the few ways for common people to take sides on the issues.

So you had the hysterical divisiveness of sports fandom driving debate on complicated policy issues. What could go wrong?




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Robert Holmén

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« Reply #2350 on: Sep 24, 2017, 04:27PM »

"Rangers lead the way!"

http://www.abc15.com/news/national/pittsburgh-steeler-and-former-army-ranger-stands-for-anthem-by-himself

"Sua Sponte"
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Russ White

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« Reply #2351 on: Sep 24, 2017, 07:19PM »

This is the single most thoughtful and relevant take on the whole anthem silliness I have seen. This guy nails it, and shows superficial, flag-waving patiotism for the sham it is.

https://www.attn.com/stories/11050/military-veteran-stands-colin-kaepernick?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=direct-share&utm_campaign=shares

"Would that make you respect your nation, the one which forced a man into the illusion of respect, a nation of little clockwork patriots all pretending satisfaction and respect? Is that what you want? If THAT's what matters to you, the illusion of respect, then you're not talking about freedom or liberty. You're not talking about the United States of America. Instead you're talking about every dictatorship from the Nazis to North Korea where people are lined up and MADE to salute with the muzzle of a gun pressed to the back of their necks."

BAM!!!!
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badger

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« Reply #2352 on: Sep 24, 2017, 07:53PM »

Bilge!

I do not even know what that site is...Crap is all I see.

Not unexpected.

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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #2353 on: Sep 24, 2017, 07:57PM »


Do you respect Green Berets as well?
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/look-green-beret-nate-boyer-meets-with-colin-kaepernick-for-a-good-talk/
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Russ White

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« Reply #2354 on: Yesterday at 04:30 AM »

Bilge!

I do not even know what that site is...Crap is all I see.

Not unexpected.


typical, unthinking, ad hominem blather. Not unexpected.
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Daniel Harris
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« Reply #2355 on: Yesterday at 07:35 AM »

Perhaps badger might be acquainted with this site:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/this-is-what-the-flag-stands-for-mr-president/2017/09/24/34be7726-a130-11e7-b14f-f41773cd5a14_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_

I suspect he is not familiar with the words of Supreme Court Justice Robert H. Jackson in West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, quoted in the editorial:

Quote
  “To believe that patriotism will not flourish if patriotic ceremonies are voluntary and spontaneous, instead of a compulsory routine,” he wrote, “is to make an unflattering estimate of the appeal of our institutions to free minds.”
     
                                                              ...

“If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion, or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein.”

The following might also be of interest:

http://www.thewrap.com/trump-nfl-slapped-with-ethics-complaint-over-call-to-fire-players-who-protest-anthem-exclusive/

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The Democratic Coalition, an anti-Trump political group, filed a complaint against President Donald Trump with the Office of Government Ethics on Sunday for calling on NFL owners to fire players who kneel in protest during the national anthem, TheWrap has learned exclusively.
                                 ...

You can read the full complaint below.

September 24, 2017

On Friday September 22nd, 2017 President Donald Trump said this at a rally for Alabama Senator Luther Strange: “Wouldn’t you love to see one of these NFL owners, when somebody disrespects our flag, to say, ‘Get that son of a ***** off the field right now. Out! He’s fired. He’s fired!’ You know, some owner is going to do that. He’s going to say, ‘That guy that disrespects our flag, he’s fired.’ And that owner, they don’t know it [but] they’ll be the most popular person in this country.”

On Saturday September 23rd, 2017 President Trump tweeted “If a player wants the privilege of making millions of dollars in the NFL,or other leagues, he or she should not be allowed to disrespect…. …our Great American Flag (or Country) and should stand for the National Anthem. If not, YOU’RE FIRED. Find something else to do!” Trump later tweeted: “Roger Goodell of NFL just put out a statement trying to justify the total disrespect certain players show to our country.Tell them to stand!”

Today President Trump tweeted “If NFL fans refuse to go to games until players stop disrespecting our Flag & Country, you will see change take place fast. Fire or suspend! NFL attendance and ratings are WAY DOWN. Boring games yes, but many stay away because they love our country. League should back U.S.”

18 U.S. Code § 227 makes it a federal crime – punishable by a fine of up to 15 years in prison – for anyone, including the President, to influence or threaten to influence a private employment decision.

We respectfully request that the U.S. Office of Government Ethics investigate these potential ethics violations and take all appropriate disciplinary actions against President Trump.

Sincerely,

Scott J. Dworkin
Senior Advisor
Democratic Coalition Against Trump

(emphasis added)

Dan Harris
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