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The Trombone ForumCreation and PerformancePerformance(Moderator: BGuttman) Some of my jazz improvisation. Feel free to comment.
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Max Acree
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« on: Feb 05, 2017, 01:46AM »

Hi Guys,

Some clips of my solo playing with my own group at a gig we do weekly at Wallys Jazz Cafe here in Boston. Ive also recorded a solo album with Jerry Bergonzi and George Garzone in a group lead by Boston pianist Fernando Michelin that will be released this coming June. I was also a long time student of trombonist Hal Crook at Berklee who has influenced me a lot. Please feel free to give your thoughts. Thanks!

Max Acree


https://soundcloud.com/maxwell-acree/vaapad
https://soundcloud.com/maxwell-acree/dont-mind-me
https://soundcloud.com/maxwell-acree/i-remember-you-wallys
https://soundcloud.com/maxwell-acree/solar-wallys
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Doug Elliott
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« Reply #1 on: Feb 05, 2017, 07:47AM »

Very cool.  The Hal Crook influence is obviously there.  I love that kind of fluent fluidity all over the horn.

My only comment would be to make sure the outside stuff is related to something and not just out to be out.
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Max Acree
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« Reply #2 on: Feb 05, 2017, 07:10PM »

Very cool.  The Hal Crook influence is obviously there.  I love that kind of fluent fluidity all over the horn.

My only comment would be to make sure the outside stuff is related to something and not just out to be out.

Hi Doug!

 It is great to hear from you. Thanks so much for the advice, I really appreciate your feedback. I would tend to agree, for me finding a balance between standard and extended playing is a tough path to walk. However, the lines when I play " out " are deliberately constructed to be this way and are somewhat atonal by choice. Its really a form of what I call chromatic sequencing. I take a cell that spans a certain range, come up with a line within that cell, and then shift up in half steps, each time trying to come up with a different melodic shape for each cell. This can be done with a multitude of different intervals, for example tritones ... C-F#,G-C#-D-G#.... Major or minor thirds C-E,F-A,Bb-D,Eb-G .... C-Eb,E-G etc.... 4ths F-Bb , B-E , F-Bb. This can also be done with differing intervals, for example it doesn't always have to be in a patterns of major 3rds, 4ths, tritones etc... each cell can have a unique interval range that it encompasses IE C-E,F-Bb-B-F... the idea is that they are always displaced by a half step. The main goal is to really come up with a unique shape in each cell which can also mean hovering around the notes within that range for more than one complete rotation or choosing to move on. By choosing to either mimic the interval range of your previous cell , or expand/collapse upon that , you can generate non linear chromatic lines that either grow in range, shrink in range, or hover around the same range each time you shift. It does have a method, but you would be absolutely right that it doesn't really relate to the harmony of the song. Here in Boston I do a lot of Free Improvisational Music, its kind of rubbed of as a result of that and doing a lot of studying at Berklee with a saxophonist named George Garzone who has a free group in Boston called "The Fringe". I am actually in the middle of securing a deal with Berklee to write a book of licks based on these ideas I have come up with over the last couple of years , thanks mostly to George.  The idea would be to explain how the line is constructed and show a few examples of each before moving onto a different interval set that the cell encompasses. The trick for me is being able to blend these lines with more standard vocabulary in a cohesive way. Its always been my greatest weakness because I approached those two types of playing with such radically different mindset. Bebop I learned very by the book, this type of playing I approached more from the perspective of what sounded good to my ears and a lot of trial and error. I would try out different intervallic rules and apply them to a line , rinse and repeat a few million times, I would listen for shapes that were appealing to my ears and figure out how to recreate it. I was also greatly influenced by 20th century classical composers like Schoenberg, Bartok and Stravinsky. Once again, thanks so much for the advice Doug, it got me thinking and definitely made my day!

-Max
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Doug Elliott
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« Reply #3 on: Feb 05, 2017, 07:24PM »

Thanks for the explanation, it totally makes sense.  I was sort of hearing that but I don't (or can't) really think that way myself, I just never learned to approach playing from that kind of intellectual perspective.  But I love hearing it and you really blend the two styles in a great way.  I don't think it's a "weakness" at all.

Hal played at one of the ITF's a few years ago.  After one tune a few people got up and left.. Hal said "Wait, I can play straight ahead too....  I just don't want to.". 
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uncle duke
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« Reply #4 on: Feb 05, 2017, 08:17PM »

Hal said "wait, I can play straight ahead too......I just don't want to".   After listening to Mr. Acree's samples I have to be honest with myself firstly- I would be one of the people walking out the door. 
  During listening there are times when I thought to myself "could I sit through an hour of listening to this?  It would be hard to, I think.  I hear a drummer cutting up whenever he feels the need to, does the bass wonder away farther than he should?  The trombone.  Mr. Acree does make some fine sound, other times it's sink or swim {swing}  Could a piano be used for melody?  Just an idea though it would be another mouth to feed.

  OTOH, there are times when all three of you guys are really working well as one unit - impressive.  Forgive/forget my thoughts if they are of no help.
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« Reply #5 on: Feb 05, 2017, 09:21PM »

Hal said "wait, I can play straight ahead too......I just don't want to".   After listening to Mr. Acree's samples I have to be honest with myself firstly- I would be one of the people walking out the door. 
  During listening there are times when I thought to myself "could I sit through an hour of listening to this?  It would be hard to, I think.  I hear a drummer cutting up whenever he feels the need to, does the bass wonder away farther than he should?  The trombone.  Mr. Acree does make some fine sound, other times it's sink or swim {swing}  Could a piano be used for melody?  Just an idea though it would be another mouth to feed.

  OTOH, there are times when all three of you guys are really working well as one unit - impressive.  Forgive/forget my thoughts if they are of no help.

I totally get where you are coming from, for some people, jazz as it is presented in these recordings can be an acquired taste...but, I dig it, and would stay for another set. Three musicians going for it, taking risks, and exploring musical/improvisational ideas (such as Max' example mentioned above). 

...and I certainly wouldn't expect any piano melodies at a trombone trio gig :)


Max, I reckon you'll dig Scott Tinkler - check him out!
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Doug Elliott
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« Reply #6 on: Feb 05, 2017, 09:23PM »

It's fun and useful to explore how far you can go with things, but not everybody wants to hear that.  
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« Reply #7 on: Feb 06, 2017, 01:29AM »

It's fun and useful to explore how far you can go with things, but not everybody wants to hear that.  

Totally
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« Reply #8 on: Feb 06, 2017, 03:23AM »

Maybe it's down to the destination of the student, and that could could be teaching jazz specifically. But there's also a danger that playing so outside on YouTube for example, that it could be counterproductive in the long term.
Someone looking for a trombone to add some overdubs or play commercial type gigs may bulk at this skill set, it may indicate too strongly about where the players true interests lie.

I'd be careful how you use this undoubted ability, and make sure that you're not neglecting the the more pluralistic skills that will get the paying gigs. (Should that be the aim.)
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« Reply #9 on: Feb 06, 2017, 04:41AM »

Nice stuff To be in the bag of tricks. But remember the listeners are paying the bill for this. If they can't walk away recalling some of the lines you played or Whistling some of the tunes they won't walk back a second time. Plenty of music out there requires zero intellect to appreciate or remember And that is what you're competing with like it or not.
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« Reply #10 on: Feb 06, 2017, 04:43AM »

Nice stuff To be in the bag of tricks. But remember the listeners are paying the bill for this. If they can't walk away recalling some of the lines you played or Whistling some of the tunes they won't walk back a second time. Plenty of music out there requires zero intellect to appreciate or remember And that is what you're competing with like it or not.

I would have walked out as well, but as an amateur on this Forum, I didn't want to be the first one to post this. However, now that others have, it's okay to agree.

...Geezer
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Max Acree
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« Reply #11 on: Feb 06, 2017, 05:11AM »

Nice stuff To be in the bag of tricks. But remember the listeners are paying the bill for this. If they can't walk away recalling some of the lines you played or Whistling some of the tunes they won't walk back a second time. Plenty of music out there requires zero intellect to appreciate or remember And that is what you're competing with like it or not.

 Just to make everything clear. I make my living as a jazz trombonist and improviser in Boston, and have for some years now. I am plenty aware of bills, the reality of making it as a musician and catching an audiences attention. It just seems like the problem is that you're not into this style to begin with. I was really posting to get feedback from people who have something valid to say about this style. Just saying "Oh well thats just a bag of tricks"  doesn't really accomplish anything or add anything to the discussion in my book, although I do totally believe you are totally justified and welcome to have the opinion.

 Remember my lines? I know plenty of people who can remember my lines. Like Jerry Bergonzi, or George Garzone, or Greg Hopkins or any of the dozens of world class musicians I have recorded and performed with over the years around the world who have asked me to play with their groups.  Your proposition of "keeping an audience" has really already been solved from my perspective or is solved for me before I even arrive to the performance, since a large part of what I do is largely being a soloist in a group lead by another person. As far as the Wallys gig (the gig that these recordings were made at), I've always had a pretty reasonable success with it. It is on Saturday which I think helps, but I've never really lost an audience and usually pack it in. To your credit, Wallys is a pretty cramped place in general haha. I think what we are forgetting though is that a lot of people that come to these types of gigs are musicians themselves who are willing to pay to listen and in general will have a better appreciation for the music.  Point is , someone listens to it and someone enjoys it , or else I wouldn't be in the position I am today!
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« Reply #12 on: Feb 06, 2017, 06:29AM »

Max,

Demographics, intelectual level, music taste and tradition can be very different from place to place. Of which I am sure you are aware of. If your public enjoys this style and you enjoy doing it - than you are a happy fellow.

Whether some virtually unknown guys on the internet approve it, is unsignificant.

Even if I was able to improvise like you, I wouldn't do it, as I will fail to communicate with drunken tourists, mostly russians, germans and turkish (who are basically my listeners) this way.

If I was playing in a NYC jazz venue, I would probably need a different approach, yours can be a possibility.
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« Reply #13 on: Feb 06, 2017, 07:24AM »

.
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« Reply #14 on: Feb 06, 2017, 07:29AM »

Hi Guys,

Some clips of my solo playing with my own group at a gig we do weekly at Wallys Jazz Cafe here in Boston. Ive also recorded a solo album with Jerry Bergonzi and George Garzone in a group lead by Boston pianist Fernando Michelin that will be released this coming June. I was also a long time student of trombonist Hal Crook at Berklee who has influenced me a lot. Please feel free to give your thoughts. Thanks!

Max Acree


https://soundcloud.com/maxwell-acree/vaapad
https://soundcloud.com/maxwell-acree/dont-mind-me
https://soundcloud.com/maxwell-acree/i-remember-you-wallys
https://soundcloud.com/maxwell-acree/solar-wallys


We did.

You never stated that if we didn't like it, to be tacit.

...Geezer
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« Reply #15 on: Feb 06, 2017, 08:08AM »

Max, I suppose the moral of this is, don't ask a question that you don't want to hear the answer to. But in fairness there's been favourable comments about your abilities, and you have a scene that's working for you, now. It may not always be that way, people move on, venues close, tastes change. The criticism that you've received may have been from older players, like myself, who don't get it.

I play the sort of music (professionally) of which the only complement is, "please don't think that we're not enjoying your music". Criticism is par for the course, and often the result of making a statement. Better to be criticised than simply ignored..
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« Reply #16 on: Feb 06, 2017, 08:47AM »

Max, I suppose the moral of this is, don't ask a question that you don't want to hear the answer to. But in fairness there's been favourable comments about your abilities, and you have scene that's working for you, now. It may not always be that way, people move on, venues close, tastes change. The criticism that you've received may have been from older players, like myself, who don't get it.

I play the sort of music (professionally) of which the only complement is, "please don't think that we're not enjoying your music". Criticism is par for the course, and often the result of making a statement. Better to be criticised than simply ignored..

+1

I feel I can open up more now. To be fair, there were many elements I liked. I thought your tone was terrific - except when you blasted directly into the mic. I thought your intonation was terrific. I thought your articulation was terrific. I admire your mastery of your chosen instrument and your equal mastery of music theory.

For some who fear to post selections of their playing - that is on them. Others have posted sound clips and have taken both the praise and the criticism.

...Geezer - one of the "Virtually Unknown Guys On The Internet"
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« Reply #17 on: Feb 06, 2017, 08:54AM »

...Geezer - one of the "Virtually Unknown Guys On The Internet"

Do not take that as an offence, that was not my intention  :/
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« Reply #18 on: Feb 06, 2017, 09:04AM »

Do not take that as an offence, that was not my intention  :/

I didn't. I knew at the time it was very tongue-in-cheek. Lol Sorry if it seemed like that comment rankled me. I couldn't resist a little poke. lol

...Geezer
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« Reply #19 on: Feb 06, 2017, 09:12AM »

Max, I think you sound great. You can come on my bandstand anytime. Seriously - if you're ever in OKC let me know. You'd fit right in.

I wouldn't worry about some guys not digging it (as I'm sure you don't). Some people don't like Duke Ellington either.
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« Reply #20 on: Feb 06, 2017, 09:14AM »

Pretty cool. Since 'straight-ahead' jazz has run its course in my own mind, this is the sort of improvisation that I'm listening for. I'm happy when I leave a live show and can't whistle any of the tunes. Please let us know if you have any gigs planned for the NYC metro area.
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Max Acree
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« Reply #21 on: Feb 06, 2017, 10:02AM »

We did.

You never stated that if we didn't like it, to be tacit.

...Geezer

Self explanatory. Why even comment if you don't like it? The comment that I was addressing doesn't really accomplish anything in my mind . Its a redundancy that doesn't offer any advice or thoughts that are truly critical about the music in question and instead just attempts to discredit it. Like I said, everyone is free to have their opinion anyways. I just don't see the point of making a post about it is.
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« Reply #22 on: Feb 06, 2017, 10:06AM »

Max, I suppose the moral of this is, don't ask a question that you don't want to hear the answer to. But in fairness there's been favourable comments about your abilities, and you have scene that's working for you, now. It may not always be that way, people move on, venues close, tastes change. The criticism that you've received may have been from older players, like myself, who don't get it.

I play the sort of music (professionally) of which the only complement is, "please don't think that we're not enjoying your music". Criticism is par for the course, and often the result of making a statement. Better to be criticised than simply ignored..

I dont mind criticism at all , but only if its a valid criticism. Doug offered my some constructive advice on his first comment that  really made me think deeper about the music. Im all for that type of criticism. Critcism simply because you don't like the style doesn't really accomplish anything in my mind though. Trust me, I agree with you 100 percent. I guess I just view this specific situation differently. Of course, there are no hard feelings. Like I even said in my post, I think his opinion is a totally valid one and he has every reason to feel that way. But it is a stylistic thing in my eyes. Really, not trying to make any bad blood here. I have the utmost respect for everyone on the forum.
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« Reply #23 on: Feb 06, 2017, 10:43AM »

Self explanatory. Why even comment if you don't like it? The comment that I was addressing doesn't really accomplish anything in my mind . Its a redundancy that doesn't offer any advice or thoughts that are truly critical about the music in question and instead just attempts to discredit it. Like I said, everyone is free to have their opinion anyways. I just don't see the point of making a post about it is.

No it's not.

I have received unsolicited criticism about my playing. It happens. Social media...

Best to you...

...Geezer
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« Reply #24 on: Feb 06, 2017, 11:35AM »

I'm really digging this (listening as I type).  It's not background music, and it's not comforting.  I think as an audience member trying to engage with this, I would need to be paying attention, trying to make sense out of it, and then, there it is, a line that makes perfect musical sense arising from the (apparent) chaos.  Then it sinks just below the surface, but still discernible, again, if you're paying attention.

Not everybody wants to work so hard all the time to listen to music, and some people never do (all perfectly OK), but when I'm in the mood to be challenged, this is the kind of stuff I turn to.

Thanks for posting.
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« Reply #25 on: Feb 06, 2017, 02:33PM »


Some philly guys showed me some of Max's stuff. Great to hear. What I most enjoy about hearing you play is comfort you seem to have in any register of the horn. I also love hearing the fluidity with which you play lines. Really nice stuff!

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« Reply #26 on: Feb 08, 2017, 07:20AM »

I didn't say I didn't like your music, or that I wouldn't stay in hear it. I am thinking about the larger audience . When you quote things said by the jazz players you played with it is impressive, but those are not the people buying your music . I have been a professional jazz trombonist since 1974...made my living doing that. I spend my time doing everything from Dixieland to avant-garde. my tastes are very wide ranging . But the important thing for me is having people enjoy what I do and playing for the masses that pay my bills. I, too, have done recording dates with JerryB. he and many others and have had many people ask me to be on their band. That having been said, I am not saying what you do is bad or wrong or that I dislike it, I am simply saying that it's an acquired taste and everyone doesn't acquire it. And this is part of the reason that jazz is not a popular art form with the masses anymore. Oh what a shame because I believe it should be! By all means, don't stop what you're doing, just remember everyone's not obligated to dig it.
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« Reply #27 on: Feb 08, 2017, 08:13AM »

I guess we pretty much crushed him, although we meant well. I know the feeling. He was flush with himself for putting on a great performance and he wanted to share with 'bone-mates. It didn't quite work out the way he had hoped, I think. I know the feeling all too well.

Probably a mistake to critique style in the first place, but since we have...

Probably best to perform some of the more esoteric pieces in a general mixed set than to give a great big dose of it to a mixed audience. That way, if some like it, they get it and if some don't, then on to the next piece. Everyone wins. Perhaps a jazz set ought to be very fluid. If the audience is digging what is being played, keep on playing like pieces. If not, be prepared to switch it up on-the-fly. The best bands play what the audience wants to hear. It just so happens that the VERY best bands get to play what they AND the audience wants.

If the OP was playing for an audience type that dug what he was doing, it is understandable that he would feel fantastic afterwards. However, sharing it with a mixed-bag audience on this Forum apparently yielded a different reception. I'm personally very hesitant to post any sample of my playing anymore because it might be compared to what Urbie Green could do instead of it rightfully being compared to what an elderly student with x-number of years should be able to do. 

...Geezer
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« Reply #28 on: Feb 08, 2017, 08:55AM »

I bet we didn't crush him, we just made him a little better.  A question I'd have for my wallet though would be "do you want to stay and listen to Max for twenty or so dollars or do we go four blocks down and shell out eighty bucks for an evening with Pat Martino.  The style is similar between the two and a good style to follow.

I haven't yet but I will go listen again to the chromaticism ideas Mr. Acree is working thru.  It is very possible if his trio were to start up at 1:30 a.m. that the atmosphere, sound/vibe would be totally different. 

  I was schooled, taught, shown, observed the style long ago.  Did I learn it?  Another good question.  Would I have gotten away unscathed critic/grade wise trying a scaler/playing method such as Max's?  Maybe at first I think but it could of been for me a "go back to the woodshed w/ the piano", then come back to class type of issue also.
  There used to be times when what I thought was gold note/playing wise would lead to the big thumbs down from my own brother - It does add confusion when that happens - my #1 critic sending me back to square one.  So do we pay heed to critics or continue as we were? 

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vito
« Reply #29 on: Feb 08, 2017, 01:14PM »

The purpose of creative music is to challenge the listener. Max did his job nicely, whether he had an audience of 1 or 100. Whether or not he can make a living performing this sort of music is only relevant to him and irrelevant with respect to praise or constructive criticism of his work.

My wife (a painter/sculptor) has a t-shirt that says, 'Good art won't match your sofa.' I'm not quite sure what the musical equivalent would be, but I attend a fair number of live shows and do my best to avoid performances that I suspect might match the standard jazz 'sofa'. Been there, heard that...
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« Reply #30 on: Feb 09, 2017, 06:58AM »

Im checking it out again...

it's not that out. I guess everybody is still listening to the same three guys and expecting everyone else to sound like those three guys.

Reminds me of Trio Jeepy - one of my favorite albums.
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« Reply #31 on: Feb 09, 2017, 08:03AM »

You all seem to be missing the point. We are all very happy for people to be creative and try new things . That doesn't necessarily mean or imply everyone will like it or anyone will like it. I applaud the effort. It's not my bag as a listener , but I performed many things that are not my bag as a listener!

 With regard to the comment of listening to the same three people I, I admit I tend to judge trombonists by what I like to hear as a trombonist , and that means Carl, Urbie, and Frank. I find pyrotechnics for the sake of pyrotechnics to be similar to the dog licking himself because he can . My three examples all had masterful command of their pyrotechnics but they use them in an extremely musical fashion. That is what I hope all of us do when we push the envelopes or try new approaches. We need to being musical first and technologists second .

 Way too many for fazz players have forgotten that music is supposed to be communication . I understand that communication can cover both I like it, and I hate it , but I believe we are supposed to be saying something relevant to our audience... otherwise were simply making noise the echoes around for a while and disappears with no one caring that it's gone.

 The music from the three people I mentioned lives on, and will live on for many years. I would hope that someone from my generation or the generation coming up these days would be able to make that kind of contribution.
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« Reply #32 on: Feb 09, 2017, 12:40PM »

Max, I'll admit- it's not quite my style, but MAN, your sound and execution are excellent. cool post Good!
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« Reply #33 on: Feb 09, 2017, 03:57PM »

I bet we didn't crush him, we just made him a little better.  A question I'd have for my wallet though would be "do you want to stay and listen to Max for twenty or so dollars or do we go four blocks down and shell out eighty bucks for an evening with Pat Martino.  The style is similar between the two and a good style to follow.

I haven't yet but I will go listen again to the chromaticism ideas Mr. Acree is working thru.  It is very possible if his trio were to start up at 1:30 a.m. that the atmosphere, sound/vibe would be totally different. 

  I was schooled, taught, shown, observed the style long ago.  Did I learn it?  Another good question.  Would I have gotten away unscathed critic/grade wise trying a scaler/playing method such as Max's?  Maybe at first I think but it could of been for me a "go back to the woodshed w/ the piano", then come back to class type of issue also.
  There used to be times when what I thought was gold note/playing wise would lead to the big thumbs down from my own brother - It does add confusion when that happens - my #1 critic sending me back to square one.  So do we pay heed to critics or continue as we were? 



Crushed? You people couldn't even if you tried.  Pant I don't say that as an insult or that I myself am insulted. I've just played with a lot of very high level improvisers, and no one gets to that point without serious trial and error and sounding like sh#$ a few times and being called sh#$ a few times as well. There has also been a quite bit of positive feedback on this that I have been able to take away. The rest I don't really care about. I'm going to play how Im going to play and thats pretty much that, always has been and its gotten me this far. I also really don't have the time to check the forum every day, so apologies in the delay for my response.
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« Reply #34 on: Feb 09, 2017, 04:53PM »

The music from the three people I mentioned lives on, and will live on for many years. I would hope that someone from my generation or the generation coming up these days would be able to make that kind of contribution.

Coltrane is still a pretty big deal too. So is Dolphy, Shaw, Booker Little, Priester, etc.... The modern language on display here may not be your bag. It does happen to be a lot of people's bag. Some people don't like hip hop. Thank god Kendrick Lamar doesn't care about that.

I'm always annoyed when someone says "well, only musicians would dig that" or something to that effect. Musicians need stuff to listen to as well.
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« Reply #35 on: Feb 09, 2017, 05:15PM »

It's fine For musicians to have musicians music only. of course that's really part of what took Jazz out of the mainstream.

A mixture of audience pleasers and jazz head pleasers usually works out pretty well.  Max don't take it personally, you are an excellent player. I've been in this business making my living for 40 years so I do think my opinions have some validity . I performed with and recorded with a lot of the same people that you have, and nobody thinks my playing is dated. after you've been in the business for 40 years come back and tell me more about your experiences and outlook. It doesn't make me right, just different from a little bit of a distance. I hope you continue to do what you're doing and have all the success in the world. I've been successful for years and years and am continuing to be successful doing what I do.  And like you, I will continue to do that so I can.
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« Reply #36 on: Feb 09, 2017, 06:34PM »

.
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« Reply #37 on: Feb 09, 2017, 09:12PM »

.
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« Reply #38 on: Feb 09, 2017, 09:35PM »

I have started and deleted a lot of posts on this topic - the only thing I'll say is that Max, you sound great.  Keep being an honest artist.  Art sounds best when it's honest, regardless of style, language, etc.   
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« Reply #39 on: Feb 09, 2017, 11:33PM »

I hope Max doesn't feel compelled to join the lengthening list of talented professionals who feel unwelcome here in the TTF shark tank.  That would be a crying shame.
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« Reply #40 on: Feb 10, 2017, 01:00AM »

Beautiful stuff. Hope you post some more.

I have to agree that the stylistic criticism in this thread isn't very useful, nor is the advice to a professional musician with respect to appealing to a mass audience. It's like looking at a Rothko painting and asking him, "Have you seen that guy on TV who can make a tree with three brush strokes? People really like him!"

If you don't get this kind of thing, you can always play "In the Mood" one more time, I guess. People will listen to that all night.

I also appreciate the technical explanation of the music. I've never been very good at outside playing, even though I like it. Part of the reason I like it is that when it's well done it intuitively makes sense and sounds good to me but I don't know why.
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« Reply #41 on: Feb 10, 2017, 03:08AM »

Michael Brecker is the master of all inside, outside upside ya headside playing whilst remaining popular and never going out of fashion!!!
An artist who remained true to the music at all times.

Max is clearly a great trombonist, he is on a journey and is searching for his own style which is commendable!!!
I truly hope you can realise your goals and be able to stay true to the music whilst making a decent living.

All the best,
Chris.
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« Reply #42 on: Feb 10, 2017, 05:15AM »

Everyone, or nearly everyone has ended up making comments about his style; with some having chided and half-ridiculed others for not embracing the unfamiliar. This thread reminds me of the Jim Pugh thread about 3 or so years ago where he played a really "out there" piece. Same discussion; different time and different performer.

The OP had stated he didn't want anyone talking about style. And yet, if you think about it, what else is there to comment on? He's a seasoned pro. His articulation, tone and intonation had BETTER be on point or he wouldn't BE a seasoned pro. So what else is left to comment on; a little bit about song pattern or chord progression? Is THAT what he wanted us to comment on?

And even the guys who complimented him on his style were still talking about his style. 

I believe his intentions were good, but I also think he unintentionally and inadvertently slipped us an intellectual sucker punch.  Evil

And I admit, the more I listen to his recordings, the more I like what he is adroitly doing. OOPS! I just commented on style [gasp]! lol

...Geezer
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« Reply #43 on: Feb 11, 2017, 06:13PM »

There has also been a quite bit of positive feedback on this that I have been able to take away. The rest I don't really care about. I'm going to play how Im going to play and thats pretty much that, always has been and its gotten me this far.

I dig this attitude towards the subject personally! I know for myself that I'm a person who more preferably does his own thing. The others can do what they want, but I personally can't really like something that I've created if the whole thing is confined to someone else's rules.
Not that that'd be compared to you or your mindset, Max - just 'saying my thoughts aloud' based on my own experiences, and on how you responded there.
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« Reply #44 on: Feb 12, 2017, 12:47AM »

Michael Brecker is the master of all inside, outside upside ya headside playing whilst remaining popular and never going out of fashion!!!
An artist who remained true to the music at all times.

Max is clearly a great trombonist, he is on a journey and is searching for his own style which is commendable!!!
I truly hope you can realise your goals and be able to stay true to the music whilst making a decent living.

All the best,
Chris.

 I really appreciate your kind words, but I think there is a misunderstanding. I am a professional in the Boston and New England area that makes my living through playing and teaching. Im going to Argentina this summer to teach Improvisation to Trombone Students for 2 weeks for example, and I've made a record with Jerry Bergonzi and George Garzone that is due this summer. As for my style, the "Searching" was completed a long time ago from my point of view, this is a way of playing that I've come to after many years of hard work and study. The study continues, but not in terms of a building a style , more so adding on to it. Mike is an amazing musician, but not one that I really aspire to sound like or imitate in any way btw. Its ultimately just a personal preference.
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« Reply #45 on: Feb 12, 2017, 01:31AM »

We all want and need validation for our endeavours, but to ask it for muddies the waters IMO.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=social+media+validation+quotes&sa=X&biw=1584&bih=951&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ved=0ahUKEwjwz8a3norSAhUrBsAKHRJGB94QsAQIHg
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« Reply #46 on: Feb 12, 2017, 05:54AM »

I really appreciate your kind words, but I think there is a misunderstanding. I am a professional in the Boston and New England area that makes my living through playing and teaching. Im going to Argentina this summer to teach Improvisation to Trombone Students for 2 weeks for example, and I've made a record with Jerry Bergonzi and George Garzone that is due this summer. As for my style, the "Searching" was completed a long time ago from my point of view, this is a way of playing that I've come to after many years of hard work and study. The study continues, but not in terms of a building a style , more so adding on to it. Mike is an amazing musician, but not one that I really aspire to sound like or imitate in any way btw. Its ultimately just a personal preference.
I was thinking that... You have your own style already.  It is a lot like Hal's but your own, and I like it a lot.  This is the wrong place... Everybody has an opinion and it's not relevant to what you do.  Just do it.
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« Reply #47 on: Feb 12, 2017, 06:38AM »

I really appreciate your kind words, but I think there is a misunderstanding. I am a professional in the Boston and New England area that makes my living through playing and teaching. Im going to Argentina this summer to teach Improvisation to Trombone Students for 2 weeks for example, and I've made a record with Jerry Bergonzi and George Garzone that is due this summer. As for my style, the "Searching" was completed a long time ago from my point of view, this is a way of playing that I've come to after many years of hard work and study. The study continues, but not in terms of a building a style , more so adding on to it. Mike is an amazing musician, but not one that I really aspire to sound like or imitate in any way btw. Its ultimately just a personal preference.

Point taken, however never stop searching!!!!

Best wishes,
Chris
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« Reply #48 on: Feb 12, 2017, 09:46AM »


I read your posts on various threads. Maybe others will spit if I encourage you, but I like how you think.  :)

...Geezer
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« Reply #49 on: Feb 12, 2017, 11:16AM »

I read your posts on various threads. Maybe others will spit if I encourage you, but I like how you think.  :)

...Geezer

I agree too, but I'm not sure that's what was going on here.
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« Reply #50 on: Feb 12, 2017, 02:00PM »

I agree too, but I'm not sure that's what was going on here.

Rest assured, there's no malice involved. Happy to elucidate (!) if you have a query.
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« Reply #51 on: Feb 12, 2017, 07:54PM »

Rest assured, there's no malice involved. Happy to elucidate (!) if you have a query.

I saw no malice  :).  I just don't think there's much to be gained by further questioning Mr Acree's motives.  I appreciated the opportunity to hear some music I hadn't heard.  Some criticism is constructive, some isn't, including that based on assumptions regarding the musical tastes of his audience (which, I hasten to add, you did not make, or at least voice).  If he were unable to attract an audience, and came here asking the denizens of an internet forum why they thought that might be, then fair enough.
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« Reply #52 on: Feb 13, 2017, 01:26AM »

I saw no malice  :).  I just don't think there's much to be gained by further questioning Mr Acree's motives.  I appreciated the opportunity to hear some music I hadn't heard.  Some criticism is constructive, some isn't, including that based on assumptions regarding the musical tastes of his audience (which, I hasten to add, you did not make, or at least voice).  If he were unable to attract an audience, and came here asking the denizens of an internet forum why they thought that might be, then fair enough.


I don't think that anything will be gained, but did the great artists in every genre baulk at criticism? If I where to ask for an opinion of my playing, as an older person I would assume that most of the responses had some value, sure some would be hard to take, but I wouldn't be looking for validation either.
To put ones music out and advise of that is one thing, asking for comments is another thing altogether. That's FaceBook and Twitter territory..
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« Reply #53 on: Feb 13, 2017, 01:38AM »

That's FaceBook and Twitter territory..

And that must be why I've never been tempted to use either of them.
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« Reply #54 on: Feb 13, 2017, 05:41AM »

And that must be why I've never been tempted to use either of them.

You can't teach an old dog...
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