Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

 
Advanced search

1069596 Posts in 70982 Topics- by 18771 Members - Latest Member: schaarea
Jump to:  
The Trombone ForumCreation and PerformancePerformance(Moderator: BGuttman) Some of my jazz improvisation. Feel free to comment.
Pages: 1 [2] 3  All   Go Down
Print
Author Topic: Some of my jazz improvisation. Feel free to comment.  (Read 2713 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
vito
« Reply #20 on: Feb 06, 2017, 09:14AM »

Pretty cool. Since 'straight-ahead' jazz has run its course in my own mind, this is the sort of improvisation that I'm listening for. I'm happy when I leave a live show and can't whistle any of the tunes. Please let us know if you have any gigs planned for the NYC metro area.
Logged
Max Acree
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Jan 14, 2017
Posts: 22

View Profile
« Reply #21 on: Feb 06, 2017, 10:02AM »

We did.

You never stated that if we didn't like it, to be tacit.

...Geezer

Self explanatory. Why even comment if you don't like it? The comment that I was addressing doesn't really accomplish anything in my mind . Its a redundancy that doesn't offer any advice or thoughts that are truly critical about the music in question and instead just attempts to discredit it. Like I said, everyone is free to have their opinion anyways. I just don't see the point of making a post about it is.
Logged
Max Acree
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Jan 14, 2017
Posts: 22

View Profile
« Reply #22 on: Feb 06, 2017, 10:06AM »

Max, I suppose the moral of this is, don't ask a question that you don't want to hear the answer to. But in fairness there's been favourable comments about your abilities, and you have scene that's working for you, now. It may not always be that way, people move on, venues close, tastes change. The criticism that you've received may have been from older players, like myself, who don't get it.

I play the sort of music (professionally) of which the only complement is, "please don't think that we're not enjoying your music". Criticism is par for the course, and often the result of making a statement. Better to be criticised than simply ignored..

I dont mind criticism at all , but only if its a valid criticism. Doug offered my some constructive advice on his first comment that  really made me think deeper about the music. Im all for that type of criticism. Critcism simply because you don't like the style doesn't really accomplish anything in my mind though. Trust me, I agree with you 100 percent. I guess I just view this specific situation differently. Of course, there are no hard feelings. Like I even said in my post, I think his opinion is a totally valid one and he has every reason to feel that way. But it is a stylistic thing in my eyes. Really, not trying to make any bad blood here. I have the utmost respect for everyone on the forum.
Logged
Geezerhorn

*
Offline Offline

Location: PA
Joined: Feb 9, 2012
Posts: 5200
"Lego My Trombone"


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: Feb 06, 2017, 10:43AM »

Self explanatory. Why even comment if you don't like it? The comment that I was addressing doesn't really accomplish anything in my mind . Its a redundancy that doesn't offer any advice or thoughts that are truly critical about the music in question and instead just attempts to discredit it. Like I said, everyone is free to have their opinion anyways. I just don't see the point of making a post about it is.

No it's not.

I have received unsolicited criticism about my playing. It happens. Social media...

Best to you...

...Geezer
Logged

growlerbox
Just a clown with an axe

*
Offline Offline

Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Joined: Feb 1, 2012
Posts: 949

View Profile
« Reply #24 on: Feb 06, 2017, 11:35AM »

I'm really digging this (listening as I type).  It's not background music, and it's not comforting.  I think as an audience member trying to engage with this, I would need to be paying attention, trying to make sense out of it, and then, there it is, a line that makes perfect musical sense arising from the (apparent) chaos.  Then it sinks just below the surface, but still discernible, again, if you're paying attention.

Not everybody wants to work so hard all the time to listen to music, and some people never do (all perfectly OK), but when I'm in the mood to be challenged, this is the kind of stuff I turn to.

Thanks for posting.
Logged

If it's not worth doing, it's not worth doing well.
Redthunder
*
Offline Offline

Location: Pennsylvania
Joined: Oct 18, 2009
Posts: 47

View Profile
« Reply #25 on: Feb 06, 2017, 02:33PM »


Some philly guys showed me some of Max's stuff. Great to hear. What I most enjoy about hearing you play is comfort you seem to have in any register of the horn. I also love hearing the fluidity with which you play lines. Really nice stuff!

Logged
ssking2b

*
Offline Offline

Location: Chester, VA
Joined: Sep 27, 2011
Posts: 306
"Trombone - the final frontier..."


View Profile WWW
« Reply #26 on: Feb 08, 2017, 07:20AM »

I didn't say I didn't like your music, or that I wouldn't stay in hear it. I am thinking about the larger audience . When you quote things said by the jazz players you played with it is impressive, but those are not the people buying your music . I have been a professional jazz trombonist since 1974...made my living doing that. I spend my time doing everything from Dixieland to avant-garde. my tastes are very wide ranging . But the important thing for me is having people enjoy what I do and playing for the masses that pay my bills. I, too, have done recording dates with JerryB. he and many others and have had many people ask me to be on their band. That having been said, I am not saying what you do is bad or wrong or that I dislike it, I am simply saying that it's an acquired taste and everyone doesn't acquire it. And this is part of the reason that jazz is not a popular art form with the masses anymore. Oh what a shame because I believe it should be! By all means, don't stop what you're doing, just remember everyone's not obligated to dig it.
Logged

Visit my web site at http://www.pjonestrombone.com 

XO Brass Artist Philip Jones
Geezerhorn

*
Offline Offline

Location: PA
Joined: Feb 9, 2012
Posts: 5200
"Lego My Trombone"


View Profile
« Reply #27 on: Feb 08, 2017, 08:13AM »

I guess we pretty much crushed him, although we meant well. I know the feeling. He was flush with himself for putting on a great performance and he wanted to share with 'bone-mates. It didn't quite work out the way he had hoped, I think. I know the feeling all too well.

Probably a mistake to critique style in the first place, but since we have...

Probably best to perform some of the more esoteric pieces in a general mixed set than to give a great big dose of it to a mixed audience. That way, if some like it, they get it and if some don't, then on to the next piece. Everyone wins. Perhaps a jazz set ought to be very fluid. If the audience is digging what is being played, keep on playing like pieces. If not, be prepared to switch it up on-the-fly. The best bands play what the audience wants to hear. It just so happens that the VERY best bands get to play what they AND the audience wants.

If the OP was playing for an audience type that dug what he was doing, it is understandable that he would feel fantastic afterwards. However, sharing it with a mixed-bag audience on this Forum apparently yielded a different reception. I'm personally very hesitant to post any sample of my playing anymore because it might be compared to what Urbie Green could do instead of it rightfully being compared to what an elderly student with x-number of years should be able to do. 

...Geezer
Logged

uncle duke
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Jan 15, 2017
Posts: 96

View Profile
« Reply #28 on: Feb 08, 2017, 08:55AM »

I bet we didn't crush him, we just made him a little better.  A question I'd have for my wallet though would be "do you want to stay and listen to Max for twenty or so dollars or do we go four blocks down and shell out eighty bucks for an evening with Pat Martino.  The style is similar between the two and a good style to follow.

I haven't yet but I will go listen again to the chromaticism ideas Mr. Acree is working thru.  It is very possible if his trio were to start up at 1:30 a.m. that the atmosphere, sound/vibe would be totally different. 

  I was schooled, taught, shown, observed the style long ago.  Did I learn it?  Another good question.  Would I have gotten away unscathed critic/grade wise trying a scaler/playing method such as Max's?  Maybe at first I think but it could of been for me a "go back to the woodshed w/ the piano", then come back to class type of issue also.
  There used to be times when what I thought was gold note/playing wise would lead to the big thumbs down from my own brother - It does add confusion when that happens - my #1 critic sending me back to square one.  So do we pay heed to critics or continue as we were? 

Logged
vito
« Reply #29 on: Feb 08, 2017, 01:14PM »

The purpose of creative music is to challenge the listener. Max did his job nicely, whether he had an audience of 1 or 100. Whether or not he can make a living performing this sort of music is only relevant to him and irrelevant with respect to praise or constructive criticism of his work.

My wife (a painter/sculptor) has a t-shirt that says, 'Good art won't match your sofa.' I'm not quite sure what the musical equivalent would be, but I attend a fair number of live shows and do my best to avoid performances that I suspect might match the standard jazz 'sofa'. Been there, heard that...
Logged
Exzaclee

*
Offline Offline

Location: Edmond, OK
Joined: Mar 8, 2008
Posts: 6470
"Check out my new website!"


View Profile
« Reply #30 on: Feb 09, 2017, 06:58AM »

Im checking it out again...

it's not that out. I guess everybody is still listening to the same three guys and expecting everyone else to sound like those three guys.

Reminds me of Trio Jeepy - one of my favorite albums.
Logged

Music is my mistress, and she plays second fiddle to no one!
www.zacleemusic.com
ssking2b

*
Offline Offline

Location: Chester, VA
Joined: Sep 27, 2011
Posts: 306
"Trombone - the final frontier..."


View Profile WWW
« Reply #31 on: Feb 09, 2017, 08:03AM »

You all seem to be missing the point. We are all very happy for people to be creative and try new things . That doesn't necessarily mean or imply everyone will like it or anyone will like it. I applaud the effort. It's not my bag as a listener , but I performed many things that are not my bag as a listener!

 With regard to the comment of listening to the same three people I, I admit I tend to judge trombonists by what I like to hear as a trombonist , and that means Carl, Urbie, and Frank. I find pyrotechnics for the sake of pyrotechnics to be similar to the dog licking himself because he can . My three examples all had masterful command of their pyrotechnics but they use them in an extremely musical fashion. That is what I hope all of us do when we push the envelopes or try new approaches. We need to being musical first and technologists second .

 Way too many for fazz players have forgotten that music is supposed to be communication . I understand that communication can cover both I like it, and I hate it , but I believe we are supposed to be saying something relevant to our audience... otherwise were simply making noise the echoes around for a while and disappears with no one caring that it's gone.

 The music from the three people I mentioned lives on, and will live on for many years. I would hope that someone from my generation or the generation coming up these days would be able to make that kind of contribution.
Logged

Visit my web site at http://www.pjonestrombone.com 

XO Brass Artist Philip Jones
davdud101
The Kid

*
Offline Offline

Location: Detroit, MI
Joined: Jun 20, 2014
Posts: 897
"Put yourself in the shoes of the listener."


View Profile WWW
« Reply #32 on: Feb 09, 2017, 12:40PM »

Max, I'll admit- it's not quite my style, but MAN, your sound and execution are excellent. cool post Good!
Logged

Don't practice until you get it right.
Practice until you can't get it wrong.
Max Acree
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Jan 14, 2017
Posts: 22

View Profile
« Reply #33 on: Feb 09, 2017, 03:57PM »

I bet we didn't crush him, we just made him a little better.  A question I'd have for my wallet though would be "do you want to stay and listen to Max for twenty or so dollars or do we go four blocks down and shell out eighty bucks for an evening with Pat Martino.  The style is similar between the two and a good style to follow.

I haven't yet but I will go listen again to the chromaticism ideas Mr. Acree is working thru.  It is very possible if his trio were to start up at 1:30 a.m. that the atmosphere, sound/vibe would be totally different. 

  I was schooled, taught, shown, observed the style long ago.  Did I learn it?  Another good question.  Would I have gotten away unscathed critic/grade wise trying a scaler/playing method such as Max's?  Maybe at first I think but it could of been for me a "go back to the woodshed w/ the piano", then come back to class type of issue also.
  There used to be times when what I thought was gold note/playing wise would lead to the big thumbs down from my own brother - It does add confusion when that happens - my #1 critic sending me back to square one.  So do we pay heed to critics or continue as we were? 



Crushed? You people couldn't even if you tried.  Pant I don't say that as an insult or that I myself am insulted. I've just played with a lot of very high level improvisers, and no one gets to that point without serious trial and error and sounding like sh#$ a few times and being called sh#$ a few times as well. There has also been a quite bit of positive feedback on this that I have been able to take away. The rest I don't really care about. I'm going to play how Im going to play and thats pretty much that, always has been and its gotten me this far. I also really don't have the time to check the forum every day, so apologies in the delay for my response.
Logged
Exzaclee

*
Offline Offline

Location: Edmond, OK
Joined: Mar 8, 2008
Posts: 6470
"Check out my new website!"


View Profile
« Reply #34 on: Feb 09, 2017, 04:53PM »

The music from the three people I mentioned lives on, and will live on for many years. I would hope that someone from my generation or the generation coming up these days would be able to make that kind of contribution.

Coltrane is still a pretty big deal too. So is Dolphy, Shaw, Booker Little, Priester, etc.... The modern language on display here may not be your bag. It does happen to be a lot of people's bag. Some people don't like hip hop. Thank god Kendrick Lamar doesn't care about that.

I'm always annoyed when someone says "well, only musicians would dig that" or something to that effect. Musicians need stuff to listen to as well.
Logged

Music is my mistress, and she plays second fiddle to no one!
www.zacleemusic.com
ssking2b

*
Offline Offline

Location: Chester, VA
Joined: Sep 27, 2011
Posts: 306
"Trombone - the final frontier..."


View Profile WWW
« Reply #35 on: Feb 09, 2017, 05:15PM »

It's fine For musicians to have musicians music only. of course that's really part of what took Jazz out of the mainstream.

A mixture of audience pleasers and jazz head pleasers usually works out pretty well.  Max don't take it personally, you are an excellent player. I've been in this business making my living for 40 years so I do think my opinions have some validity . I performed with and recorded with a lot of the same people that you have, and nobody thinks my playing is dated. after you've been in the business for 40 years come back and tell me more about your experiences and outlook. It doesn't make me right, just different from a little bit of a distance. I hope you continue to do what you're doing and have all the success in the world. I've been successful for years and years and am continuing to be successful doing what I do.  And like you, I will continue to do that so I can.
Logged

Visit my web site at http://www.pjonestrombone.com 

XO Brass Artist Philip Jones
Max Acree
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Jan 14, 2017
Posts: 22

View Profile
« Reply #36 on: Feb 09, 2017, 06:34PM »

.
Logged
Max Acree
*
Offline Offline

Location:
Joined: Jan 14, 2017
Posts: 22

View Profile
« Reply #37 on: Feb 09, 2017, 09:12PM »

.
Logged
ntap
*
Offline Offline

Location: New York, NY
Joined: Aug 14, 2007
Posts: 965

View Profile
« Reply #38 on: Feb 09, 2017, 09:35PM »

I have started and deleted a lot of posts on this topic - the only thing I'll say is that Max, you sound great.  Keep being an honest artist.  Art sounds best when it's honest, regardless of style, language, etc.   
Logged

growlerbox
Just a clown with an axe

*
Offline Offline

Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Joined: Feb 1, 2012
Posts: 949

View Profile
« Reply #39 on: Feb 09, 2017, 11:33PM »

I hope Max doesn't feel compelled to join the lengthening list of talented professionals who feel unwelcome here in the TTF shark tank.  That would be a crying shame.
Logged

If it's not worth doing, it's not worth doing well.
Pages: 1 [2] 3  All   Go Up
Print
Jump to: