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The Trombone ForumHorns, Gear, and EquipmentRepairs, Modifications and Maintenance(Moderators: john sandhagen, BGuttman) Help! Dented tuning slide- everything I play is flat??
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davdud101
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« on: Mar 05, 2017, 07:41PM »

Hi, trombrethen!
I recently switched my lead mouthpiece from a 12C to a Yamaha 48 p, which has given me great strides in tone quality and volume at no cost whatsoever to my range or endurance. (I play a 51 on large bore and I've been using this setup for about a month now, so my chops are definitely conditioned for the piece).

However, I was playing a lot on Saturday and Sunday and noticed that my horn (Yamaha 354) was unusually flat- to the degree that I was **the closest** to in-tune as I could come when then tuning slide pushed pushed all the way in. I'd usually expect to pull out maybe a half-inch or so at the least.
The tuning slide's got a nearly quarter-inch deep, 1in-long dent in it, if that's have any effect.

Any ideas as to why the horn is so flat/why I've got to push in so far? Has the dent come back to haunt me? Is it ME playing flat into the slots?

Thanks fellas
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« Reply #1 on: Mar 05, 2017, 07:50PM »

A dent in a tuning slide wouldn't cause a horn to play flat. In essence, it makes the horn smaller even negligibly so. But it would raise the pitch...in theory.
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Burgerbob

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« Reply #2 on: Mar 05, 2017, 08:04PM »

You may be playing with a more open oral cavity than before, bringing your pitch down. If it sounds good, just play with the tuning slide all the way in.
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« Reply #3 on: Mar 05, 2017, 08:42PM »

Quote
I recently switched my lead mouthpiece from a 12C to a Yamaha 48 p...

well?

Does A/B testing the 12c vs. the 48p clarify what might be the responsible change?
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« Reply #4 on: Mar 05, 2017, 08:57PM »

There might be a leak. Can you post a vid or audio so we can see/hear what might be causing it?
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« Reply #5 on: Mar 06, 2017, 02:23AM »

A dent in a tuning slide wouldn't cause a horn to play flat. In essence, it makes the horn smaller even negligibly so. But it would raise the pitch...in theory.

No in theory a dent can make a tone or maybe more then one tone flatt or sharp depending on if the dent is making the bore smaller at the place of a node or antinode.
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« Reply #6 on: Mar 06, 2017, 04:37AM »

Was it colder than usual?
Are you ALWAYS flat with this combo, or was it just this one time?
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« Reply #7 on: Mar 06, 2017, 05:31AM »

No in theory a dent can make a tone or maybe more then one tone flatt or sharp depending on if the dent is making the bore smaller at the place of a node or antinode.

But also in theory, that same dent should make some notes flat and other notes sharp.

His problem seems to be all notes flat, so that doesn't sound like a dent. 
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Tim Richardson
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« Reply #8 on: Mar 06, 2017, 06:27AM »

It would have to be a VERY substantial dent to affect tuning,  IMHO!

I'm thinking the new piece might not sit as far into the receiver essentially making the horn just a tad longer.



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« Reply #9 on: Mar 06, 2017, 03:27PM »

But also in theory, that same dent should make some notes flat and other notes sharp.

His problem seems to be all notes flat, so that doesn't sound like a dent. 
right so. Must be some other reason.
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« Reply #10 on: Mar 09, 2017, 11:58AM »

Whoops - I'll try to get audio posted in the next few days. It's not *notoriously* flat, just a lot flatter than I'm used to horns being when pushed all the way in.
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« Reply #11 on: Mar 13, 2017, 11:33PM »

it could  be  hearing  loss  from  the  giagantic   megawatt  subs  in your bud's  mustang
  //////  whoa  --man  the EARTH  IF  FLAT 
    WOW  --EVEN THE  CHICKS  LOOK  FLAT  !!!!!!!
  now  my soda  went  flat
!!!!!!!!!!
  hacking  a couple inches off the tuning  slide WILL FIX THIS !!!!!!!!!!
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« Reply #12 on: Mar 14, 2017, 06:46AM »

...
  hacking  a couple inches off the tuning  slide WILL FIX THIS !!!!!!!!!!

INCHES?  maybe 1/2 inch (12 mm) will do the trick.

Incidentally, the world is  flat.  Ask any ant.
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davdud101
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« Reply #13 on: Mar 14, 2017, 10:32AM »

False alarm, guys! After extensive testing on my three horns (even going through the tracking phase for a new recording I'm working on), I'm finding that Burgerbob's assumption is right. The tone exercises I've been doing have lead me to playing with a FAR less pinched embouchure - something I didn't even realize I was doing. This results in a generally flatter "tonal center", if it can be called that, that accompanies the fuller tone.

On my large bore, I can still pull the slide a bit before I'm in-tune (except when doing bass stuff where I need it pretty much all the way in. Chops haven't gotten quite strong enough yet for the 1.5G)

You may be playing with a more open oral cavity than before, bringing your pitch down. If it sounds good, just play with the tuning slide all the way in.
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« Reply #14 on: Mar 14, 2017, 02:04PM »

 Good!
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