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Author Topic: GOP Health Care  (Read 2921 times)
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Piano man
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« Reply #20 on: Mar 09, 2017, 04:43PM »

The problem with health care is structural. There's no effective market in medical care, besides dentistry and eye care.

My friend who's both a surgeon and a policy expert summed up the problem thusly: "How much would you charge for a hamburger if no one asked what it cost?"

That's the medical 'market', in a nutshell.

That's the problem that needs to be solved. All the rest is picking around the edges.

When the gov't has actual buying power, it chickens out. The three big players are AMA, pharma, and insurance. Obama finessed the situation quite dishonestly--he backed down to pharma, held doctors harmless, then made out the insurance industry to be the bad guys but made the bill work for them.

Trump came in waving his dick saying he was going to stand up to the pharmaceutical companies and negotiate a great deal for the American people, then had a meeting with them and came out with his tail between his legs and implied that negotiating drug prices would be 'price fixing'.

The biggest problem is that there is little practical limit on what can be charged for medical procedures. I skipped a test last year that was prescribed because my out-of-pocket would have been about $1700, and it looked to me like a $400 test. Not everyone has that choice. The free market in medicine is broken, because it's not really a market. The things that would make the market freer would be opposed by some of the richest and smartest people on the planet.
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« Reply #21 on: Mar 09, 2017, 04:56PM »

I really think we need to do away with employer provided health plans and move to associations for group plans.

The Trombone Forum has over 18K members. We should be able to negotiate a pretty good plan with that many members!


The reason employer-based group plans work is that they're not optional, and that they're based on people who are chosen for their need for employment rather than their need for medical care. You have to have a very high level of participation in order to qualify. The purpose of that requirement is to avoid 'self-selection', meaning the sickest people sign up and the rest take a flier.

I think the last one I looked at was 90% participation, but you could get an exception if you showed that you already had insurance through a family member (thus showing you weren't opting out due to good health). Even if you cut that in half (and they wouldn't) would people signing on to find out what mouthpiece works best with at 72H expect to be required to buy insurance, at anywhere near that rate?

Of course not.

If you reconnoitered the TF to be a place that attracted people who wanted medical insurance, you'd end up with the same problem as the open market--you'd find a disproportionate number of people who need medical care, and in the process you'd lose people who wanted to talk about mouthpieces. You'd have an uninsurable group, and ruin the forum.

You have a talent for developing strong opinions on subjects you know nothing about. Voluntary associations that are formed for the primary, or even secondary, purpose of obtaining health care would fail for the obvious reason.
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« Reply #22 on: Mar 09, 2017, 09:45PM »

The reason employer-based group plans work is that they're not optional, and that they're based on people who are chosen for their need for employment rather than their need for medical care. You have to have a very high level of participation in order to qualify. The purpose of that requirement is to avoid 'self-selection', meaning the sickest people sign up and the rest take a flier.

I think the last one I looked at was 90% participation, but you could get an exception if you showed that you already had insurance through a family member (thus showing you weren't opting out due to good health). Even if you cut that in half (and they wouldn't) would people signing on to find out what mouthpiece works best with at 72H expect to be required to buy insurance, at anywhere near that rate?

Of course not.

If you reconnoitered the TF to be a place that attracted people who wanted medical insurance, you'd end up with the same problem as the open market--you'd find a disproportionate number of people who need medical care, and in the process you'd lose people who wanted to talk about mouthpieces. You'd have an uninsurable group, and ruin the forum.

You have a talent for developing strong opinions on subjects you know nothing about. Voluntary associations that are formed for the primary, or even secondary, purpose of obtaining health care would fail for the obvious reason.

AARP doesn't seem to be failing.
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« Reply #23 on: Mar 09, 2017, 10:11PM »

AARP doesn't seem to be failing.

That doesn't take one thing away from what I'm saying. AARP endorses supplemental insurance policies. It doesn't effectively function as a group that can obtain group rates for primary medical insurance. To the extent that it's self-selected, it's self-selected for being old.

Duh.

If you'd spent any of your youth listening to smart people instead of talking, you'd be almost average by now. It's not too soon to start.
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« Reply #24 on: Mar 09, 2017, 10:36PM »

Like I said, The Trombone Forum could offer a plan since there are so many members. You should probably have a requirement of so many a posts per week or month to stay eligible.

TTF is too international ... and to difficult to determine where people really are, in this era of VPN services and such. 

There is no way this can be made to work, unfortunately.
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« Reply #25 on: Mar 09, 2017, 10:39PM »

Gee - 'GOP Healthcare' - that should be in a dictionary as an example of an oxymoron.
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« Reply #26 on: Mar 10, 2017, 12:51AM »

Reports are that no one wants their name attached to their version of health care bill.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/09/politics/obamacare-republicans-trumpcare-ryancare/index.html
 :D

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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #27 on: Mar 10, 2017, 04:17AM »

That doesn't take one thing away from what I'm saying.
Of course it does.
 
It's noise (or in this case characters and words) raised in opposition.
 
It wouldn't be fair not to count them just because they're irrelevant--they're words ... in opposition!
 
That's clearly your real problem. If they were words You Guys™ wrote you'd be gushing over them.
 
AARP endorses supplemental insurance policies. It doesn't effectively function as a group that can obtain group rates for primary medical insurance. To the extent that it's self-selected, it's self-selected for being old.
 
Duh.
 
If you'd spent any of your youth listening to smart people instead of talking, you'd be almost average by now. It's not too soon to start.
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« Reply #28 on: Mar 10, 2017, 04:19AM »

Reports are that no one wants their name attached to their version of health care bill.

Clearly it's got to be due to their deep humility.
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« Reply #29 on: Mar 10, 2017, 08:03AM »

Reports are that no one wants their name attached to their version of health care bill.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/09/politics/obamacare-republicans-trumpcare-ryancare/index.html
 :D



The Ryan express is ignoring all the conservatives. That's why it is just going to be another Obama Failure.
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« Reply #30 on: Mar 10, 2017, 09:07AM »

The Ryan express is ignoring all the conservatives. That's why it is just going to be another Obama Failure.
I do have to wonder... when do republicans wake up and realize they won the election?

Obama is out. (well, term limits and all)

Hillary Clinton lost.

The GOP won.

Yet, a GOP plan, pushed by a GOP dominated house, where it will stall and die in a GOP senate, and never actually get to a GOP president?

That's Obama's fault?

Yall won. Time to step up and figure out how to be more thnn an opposition party blaming everyone else for any and all failures. Besides, isn't the gop the party of personal responsibility? Grow a pair, and take some responsibility on!
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« Reply #31 on: Mar 10, 2017, 09:12AM »

Keep blaming Obama DD. That is real classy.

Your party has both houses locked up and your boy 45 is in the White House. So it is ALL on them.
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« Reply #32 on: Mar 10, 2017, 09:33AM »

THe central idea in my column this week. THe best hope for this country over the next four years is the GOP (Government of Putin)'s absolute incapacity to actually govern.
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« Reply #33 on: Mar 10, 2017, 10:21AM »

THe central idea in my column this week. THe best hope for this country over the next four years is the GOP (Government of Putin)'s absolute incapacity to actually govern.
So far they seem to be exceeding your expectations there...

Still shouting at old enemies like the election is still going on.

What do the GOP really have to unite them now that Obama is gone, and they have no powerful enemies blocking them?
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« Reply #34 on: Mar 10, 2017, 02:37PM »

That's funny. After 8 years, Obama still blamed everything on Bush. LOL!

My post above was addressing the Ryan team not listening to the conservatives, so their version was going to be a disaster. So, it being a disaster should be something we have in common. You'd think Don't know
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« Reply #35 on: Mar 10, 2017, 02:41PM »

Reminds me of when you would say that 60% of the people didn't like ObamaCare.

It was 40% who said it went too far and 20% who said it didn't go far enough.

Now we have all the Democrats who say RyanCare went too far and 20% of the Conservatives who said it didn't go far enough.
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« Reply #36 on: Mar 10, 2017, 02:53PM »

The Ryan express is ignoring all the conservatives. That's why it is just going to be another Obama Failure.

Trumpcare is Obama's fault! LOL!

Talk about excuses! LOL!
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« Reply #37 on: Mar 10, 2017, 02:53PM »

My post above was addressing the Ryan team not listening to the conservatives, so their version was going to be a disaster. So, it being a disaster should be something we have in common. You'd think Don't know

Your guy is actively lobbying for this proposal. You're blaming it on Ryan and Obama! LOL!
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« Reply #38 on: Mar 10, 2017, 02:55PM »

Reminds me of when you would say that 60% of the people didn't like ObamaCare.

It was 40% who said it went too far and 20% who said it didn't go far enough.

Now we have all the Democrats who say RyanCare went too far and 20% of the Conservatives who said it didn't go far enough.

That's true--in both cases, people disliked the bills for opposite reasons, but both sides pretended the total opposition supported their view.
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« Reply #39 on: Mar 10, 2017, 03:30PM »

That's funny. After 8 years, Obama still blamed everything on Bush. LOL!

I would like to see some citations on that.  Obama rarely ever mentioned Bush.

Let's see 'em. There better be lots of them to cover your assertion of "everything" and they better be about Bush.
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