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Author Topic: GOP Health Care  (Read 6992 times)
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robcat2075

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« Reply #140 on: Mar 24, 2017, 10:11PM »

I haven't completely fact-checked this account...

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« Reply #141 on: Mar 25, 2017, 05:20AM »

That sounds like something from The Onion.

I don't doubt that Ryan will take the fall -- Trump never loses (it's always somebody else's fault).

Someone on NPR suggested that the 50-some votes to repeal Obamacare during Obama's administration were easy since it was symbolic -- Obama would veto any bill that landed on his desk.  But now with a President who would sign such a bill, the Republicans got cold feet.
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Bruce Guttman
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Baron von Bone
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« Reply #142 on: Mar 25, 2017, 08:34AM »

That sounds like something from The Onion.

Or one of the many "news" bits that spread through networks of far right wing emailers and become part of the far right's understanding of reality and the basis for their judgments, their understanding of our government and our history, and their voting.
 
 
 
I don't doubt that Ryan will take the fall -- Trump never loses (it's always somebody else's fault).

In some circles, but The Donald only enjoys the freedom from responsibility or the constraints of honesty in those circles. No one else makes anywhere near the effort required in terms of self-deception and intellectual cowardice to function so stupidly.
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« Reply #143 on: Mar 25, 2017, 10:32AM »

His supporters never seem to notice when he lies. When he campaigned he claimed to have a plan that was much better and cheaper than Obamacare, and everyone would be covered. He said this many times.

How do you square that with the new behind-the-scenes line, which seems to be that he trusted Ryan to come up with a plan and it wasn't a good one?  You can't. He lied in the first place about having a plan. He was just saying what people wanted to hear.

After eight years of just relentlessly screwing with Obama, the GOP has forgotten how to actually govern, and the president is a joke. He has no idea how to preside and no interest in learning it. The one skill that people attributed to him who voted for him is his negotiating skills. He brought those out in full force, against allies, not adversaries, and fell on his face.
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« Reply #144 on: Mar 25, 2017, 10:42AM »

Trump's negotiation skills are probably overrated.

It's pretty easy to negotiate from a position of strength where there's an imbalance of power. But in a checks and balance system, it's a different ball game. Trump's ultimatum probably lost him as many votes as it got him. Most people don't like being pushed around.
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« Reply #145 on: Mar 25, 2017, 10:52AM »

Trump's negotiation skills are probably overrated.

It's pretty easy to negotiate from a position of strength where there's an imbalance of power. But in a checks and balance system, it's a different ball game. Trump's ultimatum probably lost him as many votes as it got him. Most people don't like being pushed around.

His negotiating skills are plainly overrated. He bragged that he was going to cut a great deal with pharma, including negotiating lower prices on medications. He met with pharma leaders and they ate his lunch.

He has a record of cutting terrible deals. He overpaid for the Plaza Hotel, spent way to much on it, then his creditors took it from him and had to sell it for a loss. He couldn't negotiate traditional loans for his casinos, so he borrowed through junk bonds at 14%, guaranteeing that they'd fail from day one. His negotiating skills are simply one more thing he's bragged about until gullible people believed him. They certainly haven't been in evidence during his presidency.

I think the 'make-or-break' vote demand was a political gambit. It put an end to an episode that was highlighting his incompetence day after day. He was trying to separate himself, with an insouciant manner that implied, "Hey, this is their deal--do it or don't." The fact that it went down in flames didn't matter to him, because he never had any real concern over anyone's insurance in the first place.
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« Reply #146 on: Mar 25, 2017, 06:05PM »

Hey... what if all those years of screaming about Obamacare... the disagreement wasn't actually about the policies.

What if there was something else.

Nah, that couldn't be,
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« Reply #147 on: Mar 25, 2017, 06:22PM »

I think if Trump had just presented the public demeanor of an adult since the election rather than that of a petty, vindictive Hollywood studio exec he would have been in a way better bargaining and influencing position for all of this.

It would have been so easy to do for anyone else.

It's not like he started a phony war in Iraq or anything but somehow he's made himself more unpopular than even George W. Bush just with a twitter account.

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« Reply #148 on: May 04, 2017, 07:47PM »

Obviously we now have a thoroughly wonderful plan in the pipe!
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« Reply #149 on: May 05, 2017, 05:25AM »

What an amazing display of moronic absurdity we saw after the vote yesterday. THe House REpublicans were acting like they had actually accomplished something. HELLLOOO!. It is something they have already done more than 60 times, and it is as pointless as all the other times they did it. This bill is DOA in the Senate. THe GOP (Government of Putin) might want to ask Falcon fans about celebrating at halftime.
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« Reply #150 on: May 05, 2017, 07:16AM »

It's the new GOP standard.
 
When you're on the wrong side of a no-hitter, a late inning single feels like a win ... at least for a little bit.
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« Reply #151 on: May 05, 2017, 09:18AM »

What scares me is how many people think this is an improvement.

I guess if you want all sick people to just die, it is.  Wonder how they will feel when it is them :/
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« Reply #152 on: May 05, 2017, 09:58AM »

What scares me is how many people think this is an improvement.

I guess if you want all sick people to just die, it is.  Wonder how they will feel when it is them :/
In several of the rural areas I've been in or lived in... not much changed. Same people, same area, same job or type of job. No one really moving in, many of the younguns moving out as they come of age, and jobs slowly slip away.

There's real life while is stagnant or on a slow decline... and then there's a major "faith" or religious aspect which drives social and hope. Politics, especially per the GOP, has become a matter of faith to their base... moving past the actual impacts to the driving philosophy behind it.

Per faith, people don't pray to god with the immediate expectation of relief or support... but for hope and peace of mind as they go about their lives. The GOP hopes to lead them through the same way of politics, and hope to delude them that it isn't that they have been forgotten by government, but that government shouldn't be able to help if it wanted to.
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« Reply #153 on: May 05, 2017, 10:10AM »

What scares me is how many people think this is an improvement.

I guess if you want all sick people to just die, it is. 

Stop being an alarmist!

In the boardroom it's properly called "parting with unproductive assets and reducing liabilities."
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Robert Holmén

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« Reply #154 on: May 05, 2017, 01:16PM »

And how would you feel as one of the "unproductive assets"?
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« Reply #155 on: May 05, 2017, 01:49PM »

What scares me is how many people think this is an improvement.

I guess if you want all sick people to just die, it is.  Wonder how they will feel when it is them :/

Won't they keep getting the same healthcare benefits they do now?  If so, they won't be affected at all.
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« Reply #156 on: May 05, 2017, 04:42PM »

One issue that really has driven healthcare for the last umpteen years is "Pre-Existing Conditions".

There are many ways to become a member of this group, and they're not equal. However, all discussions treat this group as a uniform group when they're not. So, the arguments made for/against is thrown out there, as if everything is equal. I think this group should be broken up into different categories so that the solutions are different for each category.

Any thoughts?
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« Reply #157 on: May 05, 2017, 04:58PM »

I would tend to agree with this.

Someone with cancer has a pre-existing condition that will probably require a lot of expensive treatments.

Type II Diabetes and Hypertension can be treated with lifestyle changes and medication often resulting in preventing more expensive treatment.

Some people have genetic diseases that may or may not respond to any treatment.

So do you dump the probably expensive cancer treatments?  The relatively inexpensive chronic diseases like Hypertension and Type II Diabetes?  Or the genetic diseases where the cures may be in long term experimentation?  Or do you drop them all?
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« Reply #158 on: May 05, 2017, 05:05PM »

Universal, single payer health insurance makes the concept of "pre-existing conditions" irrelevant. Health insurance IS NOT in any way akin to car insurance, or home insurance, or anyu other form of insurance. Every single human being, by nature of being a human being, is going to need health care at some point. It is inherent on Society to make that available to ALL members of the Society, regardless of income, status, or any other conceivable issue.
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« Reply #159 on: May 05, 2017, 06:33PM »

Well, yes; but within reason.  There are certain treatments that are extremely expensive and risky.  Do you want to offer universal heart transplants?  How about robotic walking structures for paraplegics?   I would have no problem issuing meds to make the heart transplant candidate comfortable until his inevitable demise and issuing a wheelchair to the paraplegic.  If his family can afford the transplant/robotic frame, fine.  Or maybe a charity would do it.  Or maybe a supplemental health care policy.

As an example of how risky the Republican plan is: I had an automobile accident that put me in the hospital for 3 days and in rehab for 2 weeks.  The total bill for that was around $50,000.  I had $5,000 in medical payments from my car insurance.  Medicare took care of most of the remaining $45,000.  I paid around $2,000 out of pocket.  If I had to pay for the $45,000 myself I'd be severely strained financially (but I have enough savings that I wouldn't be bankrupt or homeless).  Many of the people I know would have been devastated by my experience.
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