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The Trombone ForumPractice BreakChit-ChatPurely Politics(Moderators: bhcordova, RedHotMama, BFW) A Generation of Sociopaths: How the Baby Boomers Betrayed America
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Bruce the budgie

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« Reply #20 on: Mar 10, 2017, 10:56AM »

Do you take issue with his conclusions? Or merely wish to attack the messenger?

It has been pointed out, both in this thread, and in printed reviews, that he paints with an overly broad brush. Also, he is not a psychiatrist, AFAIK.
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« Reply #21 on: Mar 10, 2017, 04:47PM »

Not guilty. Pre-Boomer. :-P
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« Reply #22 on: Mar 11, 2017, 05:03AM »

I partially take issue with his conclusions.

I don't think the Boomers have sabotaged the nation any more than other groups.

Boomers invented "bottom line evaluation" and the Xers adopted it whole hog.  It's a way to ignore any non-financial aspect of anything.  As a result, if it doesn't pay back it's unimportant.  Things like arts, humanity, history, etc.

WE, the Baby Boomers, gave the world Reagan, trickle-down economics, de-regulation, and the destruction of unions as a force for the good of the common man. WE, the Baby Boomers, turned the USA from a 'tax and spend" country with rotating deficits and debt that was the largest creditor nation on the planet into a "borrow and spend" nation with institutionalized deficits and crippling debt that is the world's greatest debtor nation. WE, the Baby Boomers, took a nation that built and maintained infrastructure that led, and was the envy of, the world to build the largest most successful middle class in history and turned it into a country that doesn't build much of anything and is allowing the things our parents and grandparents built for us to crumble around our heads while our middle class shrinks in oblivion. WE, the baby boomers, gave us Drumpf. WE, the Baby Boomers have largely been a malignant cancer on this country.
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« Reply #23 on: Sep 28, 2017, 04:58PM »

I did read the article linked, and the redeeming point of the article and the author is that he admits that he is making generalizations about boomers as a generation and not individuals.  I would really have to read the book to have an opinion on how much he got right and how much he didn't.  I would tend to think that there are more boomers who grew up and came of age in the 60s who don't fit this generalization than do, but those that have been in positions of political power, and at the helm of our fortune 500 companies have had too much unfettered power and influence and we the majority allowed it.  Regarding us lagging in technical development: it was boomers like Bill Gates and the late Steve Jobs who made this medium that we are using to communicate on now.  What would you have us do with social security?  My mother (not a boomer) only has social security to live on after the company her husband worked for went bankrupt and took away her survivor benefits pension.  She is barely getting by on social security now.  People in my parents generation relied on a combination of employer and government pensions, now the employee pensions are going away, would it not be selfish of us to reduce the social security benefits they paid into at this time?  I don't think it's selfish of people who were made promises of a secure future, and who had money mandatorily taken from their paychecks to fund it to now get what they were promised. Of course in my mother's case we could take her social security away and she would wind up on welfare so how would that solve anything?  Could we as a group have done better for the environment, no doubt we could have.  Yes as a boomer at the end of the generation (born in 1960) I can see why we as a generation can historically get a bad report card in a lot of areas. I can also see where we excelled (the tech boom is one of those areas, yes we aren't going to the moon anymore but do we really need to?).  I would bet that a lot of the clean energy that is being developed today is being done by and under the supervision of Baby boomer engineers.  It's easy for millennials to sit back and throw stones and to some extent they have some valid points, but keep in mind when I was growing up we had all the good intentions in the world too, and were critical of our parents generation, we were going to end racism, and poverty, and save the world.  I hope that millennials can do a better job than we did, and that they can save the world, my advice to millennials look to our mistakes so you don't repeat them, but stop the blame game and start working on the solutions so that history is more kind to you in the grand scheme of things.  Most of us boomers are retired or getting ready to retire so tag your it, lets see what you can do with it!!
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« Reply #24 on: Sep 29, 2017, 02:46AM »

Nicely put. Our parents and grandparents have been called "The Greatest Generation". One has to wonder what appellation will be appled to us. "The Most Selfish/ Self Centered Generation"? "The Me, Me, Me Generation"? It seems that all the good that came from our generation came from those who ignored public service, politically anyway, and created the technology you speak of outside of the public domain. We've done our best to limit/ destroy the public domain.
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« Reply #25 on: Sep 29, 2017, 05:39AM »

What would you have us do with social security?  My mother (not a boomer) only has social security to live on after the company her husband worked for went bankrupt and took away her survivor benefits pension.  She is barely getting by on social security now.  People in my parents generation relied on a combination of employer and government pensions, now the employee pensions are going away, would it not be selfish of us to reduce the social security benefits they paid into at this time?  I don't think it's selfish of people who were made promises of a secure future, and who had money mandatorily taken from their paychecks to fund it to now get what they were promised.
To quote the article:
"One of the key indicators for sociopathy is a lack of empathy. So you just don't care for people other than yourselves. So in the case of Social Security, the Social Security Administration projects the trust fund will be depleted in 2034, but by 2034 the median boomer will be dead. And the same sort of dynamic applies to the national debt, which will reach crisis levels in next 20 years. And the same logic applies to or lack thereof applies to climate, which is a problem whose most significant impacts are expected from the late 2030s on, but any cost of remediation must be borne today and would therefore imperil the entitlements budget. So, they're deeply focused on maximizing consumption now without regard to problems that are going to be postmortem."

The key problem isn't social security itself, but rather then years of intentionally siphoning from the social security funds (in good times) to pay for other things, and now that it's due to come under heavy load... refusing to fund it at sustainable levels. Baby boomers disproportionally make up the republican party. Their solution? Tell people, who've been paying into the system for sometimes 30 years themselves and who also have no pension only 401ks (which are a joke)... yeah, you don't get this perk. And end the program for anyone under 55. Aka anyone younger than boomers. So boomers should continue to fund your mother and anyone else on it or close, but we can't raise revenue to provide for them to get it themselves when it comes it.

In a very similar way, look at the GOP tax plan currently. We have incredible amounts of debt, we are in about the best we can expect for growth, but the current tax proposal looks to grow the debt and deficit even more when it should be paying off our debt and sustaining governmental funding.

Most of us boomers are retired or getting ready to retire so tag your it, lets see what you can do with it!!
Sadly, it looks like before boomers officially retire and let things go, their boomer president and boomer congress wants to take away healthcare for tax cuts for the rich, gut governmental programs now for more tax cuts, end social security for their children, and make as much money at the sake of the environment before they pass on.
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« Reply #26 on: Sep 29, 2017, 06:09AM »

To quote the article:
"One of the key indicators for sociopathy is a lack of empathy. So you just don't care for people other than yourselves. So in the case of Social Security, the Social Security Administration projects the trust fund will be depleted in 2034, but by 2034 the median boomer will be dead. And the same sort of dynamic applies to the national debt, which will reach crisis levels in next 20 years. And the same logic applies to or lack thereof applies to climate, which is a problem whose most significant impacts are expected from the late 2030s on, but any cost of remediation must be borne today and would therefore imperil the entitlements budget. So, they're deeply focused on maximizing consumption now without regard to problems that are going to be postmortem."

The key problem isn't social security itself, but rather then years of intentionally siphoning from the social security funds (in good times) to pay for other things, and now that it's due to come under heavy load... refusing to fund it at sustainable levels. Baby boomers disproportionally make up the republican party. Their solution? Tell people, who've been paying into the system for sometimes 30 years themselves and who also have no pension only 401ks (which are a joke)... yeah, you don't get this perk. And end the program for anyone under 55. Aka anyone younger than boomers. So boomers should continue to fund your mother and anyone else on it or close, but we can't raise revenue to provide for them to get it themselves when it comes it.

In a very similar way, look at the GOP tax plan currently. We have incredible amounts of debt, we are in about the best we can expect for growth, but the current tax proposal looks to grow the debt and deficit even more when it should be paying off our debt and sustaining governmental funding.
Sadly, it looks like before boomers officially retire and let things go, their boomer president and boomer congress wants to take away healthcare for tax cuts for the rich, gut governmental programs now for more tax cuts, end social security for their children, and make as much money at the sake of the environment before they pass on.
Bob,
I totally agree with you about the problems with social security and how it got that way.  I was asking you and others (there was a question at the end of my statement) "What should do we do now?"  How do we fix it without throwing old ladies out on the street?  I have my opinions: I would say raise the income cap and make those that earn more pay more in, then something we should have done from day one invest the overage for future use.  The Republicans (which I am not one) refuse to do anything that will cost them and their rich friends more money.  We don't disagree on this as much as you think.  I'm hoping the Republicans tax plan, as well as their health care plans continue to get shut down.  Not all of us Baby boomers are right wing Republicans that only care about themselves, many of us our liberal Democrats, or non-party affiliated or somewhere in between.  That's the problem I have with the article (and the author admits it also) is they paint our whole generation with one big broad brush, and classify us all the same.  I personally would gladly pay more taxes if it meant we would get things like Universal Health Care, Better education for our children, and affordable college for young adults.  Not all of us are heartless and only care about ourselves.  Many of us are doing our best to help others, we volunteer, we give to charity, etc.  Don't judge us by our age or some arbitrary category we happen to fall into based on our birthday.  I also agree with you that the next generation is getting a raw deal in regards to employment opportunities, pensions, etc.  These issues are also effecting my generation, the advantage you have is you know it's coming and can save for retirement, we have to be mindful that whatever solutions we come up with also take care of those who thought they had a pension coming and now don't.  How many baby boomers are out of work right now (Have you ever tried to find a job when you're in your 50s or early 60s) or are living at or below the poverty line.  Many of these issues effect people of all generations.  The administration wants to see us divided and fighting among ourselves, and pointing fingers at each other.  If we all got together we could throw them out, and replace them. My point is lets stop pointing fingers and start coming up with solutions!!   
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