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The Trombone ForumHorns, Gear, and EquipmentInstruments(Moderators: tbone62, slide advantage) Single Valve Bass Trombone Recommendations
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tromboli69
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« on: Mar 08, 2017, 08:23PM »

Hi everyone!

So I was thinking of buying a single valve bass trombone to play for lighter stuff/2nd trombone gigs. I hate switching mouthpieces so I tried playing tenor with a Doug Elliot with a Schilke 60 rim and I just hate the blow of the tenor and think it would be easier on a bass but people will vibe me if I show up to play 2nd with 2 triggers. Do you guys have any recommendations on good single valve bass trombones to look out for? I tried an old single valve Conn with tuning in the slide but it felt awful. I play an Edwards with rotax valves. Thanks!!!
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« Reply #1 on: Mar 08, 2017, 08:27PM »

I unfortunately don't have any recommendations, but I do wonder whether it'd sound right playing in a section of four with a bass between two tenors.

(Forgive me if you're not a big band guy! That's what my reference point is to)
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« Reply #2 on: Mar 08, 2017, 08:28PM »

the Packer RATH JP233 is an amazing horn.  If they offered it with two valves I would have walked out of TMEA with the one I played there.   They say they are offering it at some point before the end of the year with the second valve, but for now it's perfect for you.

I know a dealer that might be able to hook you up with a convention demo horn.  You can save a ton of money that way.

PM me if you want his contact info


or just get a good Conn 72H

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« Reply #3 on: Mar 08, 2017, 08:32PM »

I'm partial to the King 5B, but there are other horns out there that would work.

The classic is the Conn 72H, but you said you didn't like the one you tried.  There are a number of other single trigger Conn basses also.  All have the "Remington" shank, so you would need a special mouthpiece (or at least a shank).

Holton TR-185 (or the TR-169 if you can find one) is a nice single valve bass.

Bach 50B

Reynolds (don't know the exact model, but we had a thread on one called "Tangerine")

Olds P-22

There is a 300 series Yamaha.  YBL-356?
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« Reply #4 on: Mar 08, 2017, 08:37PM »

I'm partial to the King 5B, but there are other horns out there that would work.

The classic is the Conn 72H, but you said you didn't like the one you tried.  There are a number of other single trigger Conn basses also.  All have the "Remington" shank, so you would need a special mouthpiece (or at least a shank).

Holton TR-185 (or the TR-169 if you can find one) is a nice single valve bass.

Bach 50B

Reynolds (don't know the exact model, but we had a thread on one called "Tangerine")

Olds P-22

There is a 300 series Yamaha.  YBL-356?

the yamaha 300 series is a very nice horn, as is the conn 110H

He said the old conn he played was TIS, so it couldn't have been a 72H

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« Reply #5 on: Mar 08, 2017, 08:59PM »

Have you ever tried a tenor bell section with a bass slide? You can get 42 bell sections and 50 slides separately pretty cheap on the classified section if you're patient. What kind of gigs are you doing? If it's something where you need an appropriate 2nd trombone sound a bass trombone will probably not allow you to accomplish that, even if you switched to a tenor-sized mouthpiece. And what didn't you like about the slide-tuning Conn?
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« Reply #6 on: Mar 08, 2017, 09:06PM »

This is a rather strange request.  Why would you consider using a Bass Trombone for playing 2nd Trombone parts / "lighter stuff?"  This would normally be the territory of a Tenor Trombone - perhaps even (depending on the ensemble/repertoire) a small- or medium-bore Tenor.  You shouldn't be surprised that the Schilke 60-size mouthpiece is a mismatch for a Tenor Trombone - it's simply too large for smaller-bore instruments. 

As for your original request, you should consider the Yamaha 421G - a really nice 0.563" bore, 9½" bell single-valve Bass Trombone that plays flawlessly, and is quite affordable.  You might even get lucky and find a gently used one.  These instruments play quite nicely in the upper register (though perhaps with a somewhat smaller mouthpiece such as a Schilke 59 or 58 or the original-equipment Yamaha 58), and are quite acceptable for much Bass Trombone use.   
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« Reply #7 on: Mar 08, 2017, 09:28PM »

Given you use an Edwards 502, a Bach 50, and a 114 Doug Elliott mouthpiece, I'm not surprised you didn't like the Conn.

I'd find a single valve Bach 50 if you want a single valve bass

OR

If you want something that can sort of be a tenor but also a small bass, try to find a Holton 159.  It was marketed as a tenor and is a dual bore 0.547/0.559 slide with 9" bell.  Nice instrument and I think it would suit what you're looking for.
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« Reply #8 on: Mar 08, 2017, 09:33PM »

I'm all for single valve basses, shoot my favorite horn is my Holton TR185, but with what you've posted I would recommend just learning how to play tenor.

Get a proper tenor mouthpiece with a rim that fits your face. I personally use something with a 2g sized rim but a 5g sized cup that works much better for me than a stock 5g or 4g mouthpiece.

Trust me I've tried using a single valved bass in the situation you describe. Sure, you'll fool your section mates but you won't be able to blend with them.
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« Reply #9 on: Mar 09, 2017, 12:52AM »

This may be blatant advertising here,(please forgive me if it is) but Wessex makes a dual bore(.547/.562) "Supertenor" PB/F-555 which has a .579 standard rotary valve. That might be what you're looking for. It plays very well and is a good price.
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« Reply #10 on: Mar 09, 2017, 01:15AM »

A mouthpiece will be a lot cheaper than a used 50B.
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« Reply #11 on: Mar 09, 2017, 02:37AM »

I once had a teacher who told me he just used his Bach 50 slide with a tenor bell with his regular (bass) mouthpiece. You could just get an Edwards or Bach tenor bell section. Either would fit on your Edwards bell. Personally I like the idea of a dual bore .547/.562 slide for the purposes you describe.
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« Reply #12 on: Mar 09, 2017, 03:04AM »

CONN 110H
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« Reply #13 on: Mar 09, 2017, 03:08AM »

Yamaha 321 great horns, based on the Conn and not a lot of $$$'s  useful for pit work too!
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« Reply #14 on: Mar 09, 2017, 03:20AM »

You could just buy a single valve section for your current bass if it's modular.
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« Reply #15 on: Mar 09, 2017, 06:24AM »

Hi everyone!

So I was thinking of buying a single valve bass trombone to play for lighter stuff/2nd trombone gigs. I hate switching mouthpieces so I tried playing tenor with a Doug Elliot with a Schilke 60 rim and I just hate the blow of the tenor and think it would be easier on a bass but people will vibe me if I show up to play 2nd with 2 triggers. Do you guys have any recommendations on good single valve bass trombones to look out for? I tried an old single valve Conn with tuning in the slide but it felt awful. I play an Edwards with rotax valves. Thanks!!!

When you say 2nd trombone do you mean 2nd where there's 2 trombones? 2nd in a section of 3 or 4?
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« Reply #16 on: Mar 09, 2017, 08:04AM »

Doug Elliot with a Schilke 60 rim
Are you trying to use the same DE setup on tenor that you use on bass? If so, you might want to experiment with different cups and backbores to see if that helps.

There are some "tweener" horns out there; people have already mentioned the King 5B (personally, I prefer the 1480 to the "modern" 5B), Holton TR-159, and Wessex PB/F-555. Another option would be an Olds S-20, though you'd have to deal with the oddball mouthpiece receiver.
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« Reply #17 on: Mar 09, 2017, 11:50AM »

Here's a shameless plug...

http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,98253.msg1181428.html#msg1181428
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« Reply #18 on: Mar 09, 2017, 12:09PM »

Here is a 72H for sale here on the forum. It's not mine.

http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,96529.0.html
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« Reply #19 on: Mar 09, 2017, 05:11PM »

Have you ever tried a tenor bell section with a bass slide?

I was going to ask the same question. When I play tenor (as I did just this morning), I use a hybrid mouthpiece with an Elliott 114 rim, and I find the blow much more comfortable - and just as important, the sound easier to manipulate - with a .562 slide than a .547. My preference is a lightweight slide, which helps keep the sound from getting too tubby. On bass I play a Shires with Tru Bores and a standard B62 slide (yellow brass, nickel crook and oversleeves) and on tenor I play the Shires Chicago model bell with a rotary valve and a B62NLW (nickel lightweight). It maintains enough of a tenor sound to get away with 2nd, single trombone things, and even occasionally principal.

If you want a single valve bass trombone to play lighter repertoire, that's really a different animal, and the bass slide/tenor bell thing really doesn't do it, in my opinion. My preference for that is a Conn 70H.
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« Reply #20 on: Mar 09, 2017, 05:18PM »

I may have missed it, but I don't see what tenor was played not to be mentioned? That is probably an important consideration.  For example, I can honestly say I find the Peter Sullivan Xeno physically uncomfortable for me to play, even though I can appreciate that it is a fine horn (Pete sure plays the heck out of it). 
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« Reply #21 on: Mar 10, 2017, 08:29PM »

I jst bought a Yamaha 321 Bass. What`s the general concencous on these babies?
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« Reply #22 on: Mar 10, 2017, 08:59PM »

I jst bought a Yamaha 321 Bass. What`s the general concencous on these babies?

Real good for a single.  Plays much better than a 300 series Yamaha should.
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« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2017, 01:52PM »

Reynolds (don't know the exact model, but we had a thread on one called "Tangerine")

The Reynolds singles are kick ass bass trombones for playing commercial, they really project.  The Symphonic is the most standard build with a 9.5in bell.  The Philharmonic is a 10in bell with an E pull built into the valve tubing.  The Stereophonic is the the double valve model, also a 10in bell.

The bell (and tuning slide) on my custom bass is from an early Philharmonic made of yellow brass, not the bronzolite they are known for.  Not quite as much pop as the singles I've played in the past.  But then there's all the other parts of my horn that color that.
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« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2017, 05:04PM »

King Symphony Bass Trombone (Model 1480 - this is not a 5B)
Conn 88HK with SL4762 or SL6262 Slde
Bach 42B with Bach 50B Slide
Holton TR183
Conn 71H
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« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2017, 05:15PM »

Holton 159 or 169...but I guess I am lucky...

Sam
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« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2017, 06:00PM »


Benn H. did the work on this one. It's amazing it hasn't found a new home. The Olds P22 is my favorite. My 72H, not even top 5. The 42/50 slide combo sounds interesting.
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« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2017, 10:42PM »

I jst bought a Yamaha 321 Bass. What`s the general concencous on these babies?

They are very nice horns!

Leif
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« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2017, 07:36AM »

I'll echo what the some of the others have said about a bass not being the best fit, especially, for second parts. But if you really want to go that route:

+1 for the 42B (or variant) with a 50 slide. From your profile I see a Bach 50D. Is that a 50B variant? Also you have an Edwards bass, correct? If either/both is the case, then this is probably the most economical option (if that's a factor). Plus, it's been tried with success; It works for Jay Friedman. Plus if you buy a 42 you have a tenor to double on when you really need a tenor. And that gives you another potential combination: A Bach 50? with a 42 slide.

If he hasn't sold it, Greg Waits has a really great playing 42B:
http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,99727.msg1192158.html#msg1192158

There are a couple of larger-than-standard (.547") large bore tenors out there to try if you can:
Yamaha YSL-643; .551" bore
F.E. Olds O-23 "Opera"; .554" bore

FWIW, when I started playing again, all I had access to was a Conn 83H Bass trombone. This was in the context of a brass quintet. I used a Schilke 51D probably could have used a 51, but not much smaller. I got a decent blend, especially on low to mid range stuff. So, the recommendations for older Conn basses is probably a safe bet. Making it work depends on the player; Of course that's true of every playing situation on any equipment.

I wouldn't rule out the tenor option, especially if you have components that are compatible, like the Edwards and Bach. Good luck!
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« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2017, 10:50PM »

The Reynolds singles are kick ass bass trombones for playing commercial, they really project.

Also very light, at least mine is - with 10 inch bell, and E pull with stop.  Unbelievably light (literally - I took the weight via 3 different scales and I could tell people still could not believe it.)
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« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2017, 12:25PM »

How about a Williams 10. A little heavy but it can bark when needed?
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« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2017, 12:38AM »

How about a Williams 10. A little heavy but it can bark when needed?

Is that heavy on the bank account ?  Evil Evil
The Conn Fuchs is a single too ......

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« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2017, 01:28AM »

How about a Williams 10. A little heavy but it can bark when needed?

Sure.  Where do I place my order?   :D
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« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2017, 08:21AM »

Holtons 185 169 and even Th GR 183
Conn 72H  70H
NY , MT Vernon   Bach 50B
Olds single Valve TIS  10" bell if you can find one
   Highly Overlooked  Bass Trombones  All the Older Model Olds
 The Yamaha (321?)that was a copy of the Conn 72H
Those are my Favorites FWIW
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« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2017, 10:20AM »

IMHO, it sounds like you're trying to play the tenor like a bass, which isn't going to work, anymore than it does the other way around. If i try to play my King 3B like I play my Bach 42 it will also not work well.

A lot of the overall sound/response of the horn comes from the bell section, so as others have suggested, I would definitely go for a tenor bell section, either with a .562 bore or .562 /.547 dual bore slide.
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« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2017, 12:46PM »

Howard fire up the printing press cause it would not be cheap!LOL Everything has a price!
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« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2017, 02:11PM »

FYI...   Wessex has a single bass.
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« Reply #37 on: May 16, 2017, 02:19PM »

FYI... Greenbean has two single basses for sale.
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