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Author Topic: buy a new mouthpiece  (Read 2260 times)
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victorm
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« on: Mar 13, 2017, 02:23AM »


Hello everyone.
I am considering buying any of the following mouthpieces:
Schilke 51C4.51
Yamaha 52
Ian Bousfield S4.
I would like to know opinion of people who have tried them, differences, sensations.

Thanks and best regards
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KingMan

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« Reply #1 on: Mar 15, 2017, 06:29PM »

since you're looking, add a Wedge 5GS to the list  :)
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Burgerbob

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« Reply #2 on: Mar 15, 2017, 07:37PM »

Those are some pretty different mouthpieces!

5 and 4 sized rims are pretty different.

I'm not sure I have ever seen a Yamaha 52 in the wild.

The Schilke 51 is a good bet, though.
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« Reply #3 on: Mar 15, 2017, 08:43PM »

Have you tried just a bach 4g or 5g? I cannot even count the number of players i know who have spent time and dollars on hoards of other mouthpieces and ended up back on a bach....
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BGuttman
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« Reply #4 on: Mar 15, 2017, 09:45PM »

Victor, we need to have a couple of answers to help you:

1.  What mouthpiece are you playing now, and on what kind of trombone?
2.  What isn't working with your current mouthpiece?

A Schilke 51 (any depth) or a Bach 5G is a good middle-of-the-road mouthpiece that will not be terribly expensive.  To make a better recommendation we would have to see you play.  Your teacher (you have one, don't you?) would be the best to do this evaluation.
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Bruce Guttman
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victorm
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« Reply #5 on: Mar 16, 2017, 03:42PM »

Hi, thanks for your answers. Actually my trombon is a bach 42 and the piezaboca a jk exclusive 5AL. It is a comfortable piece. Its 26mm of diameter I like but it is too deep and it gives a very dark collision to trombon.
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BGuttman
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« Reply #6 on: Mar 16, 2017, 04:08PM »

You could look at the Bousfield or a Peter Sullivan for signature mouthpieces.  A Schilke 51 (no letter) might be a good choice.

Also look at a Denis Wick 5BL which has a flatter rim (you may like it or not -- I like them).

Note that these are a little smaller than 26 mm.

You might want to look at a Schilke 52, Bach 4G, or Wick 4BL which is a little bigger and closer to what Klier says their #5 rim is.
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Bruce Guttman
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Posaunus
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« Reply #7 on: Mar 16, 2017, 04:23PM »

Not surprising that you find the Josef Klier 5A too deep - the "A" cup is Klier's deepest, and also has a large bore diameter (7.20mm).  Most of us play on a mouthpiece with a shallower cup (and often a smaller bore).  

The Schilke 51 might be a good bet for you and your Bach 42.  Its cup I.D is 25.83mm, with a "standard" "C" depth, and a 7.04mm bore.  The Schilke 51C4 is similar diameter, with a slightly shallower cup and a flatter rim.  

Or you could stay with Bach - 5G (25.50mm cup, 7.00mm bore) or 4G (25.75mm cup, 7.00mm bore).  Bach 5G is a very popular size mouthpiece for a Bach 42 trombone.  
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vegasbound
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« Reply #8 on: Mar 17, 2017, 01:49AM »

You could look at the Bousfield or a Peter Sullivan for signature mouthpieces.  A Schilke 51 (no letter) might be a good choice.

Also look at a Denis Wick 5BL which has a flatter rim (you may like it or not -- I like them).

Note that these are a little smaller than 26 mm.

You might want to look at a Schilke 52, Bach 4G, or Wick 4BL which is a little bigger and closer to what Klier says their #5 rim is.


Denis designed the 4BL when he switched to a Bach 42 !
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« Reply #9 on: Mar 17, 2017, 06:27AM »

With regards to the JK 5AL.....do they not do a B cup?

Problem solved if they do perhaps.

Ross
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BGuttman
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« Reply #10 on: Mar 17, 2017, 06:37AM »

With regards to the JK 5AL.....do they not do a B cup?

Problem solved if they do perhaps.

Ross

There are actually B, C, D, E, and (I think) F cups.  Getting shallower as you go up in letter size.  I would suspect an A cup is more for a Euphonium where there is more resistance in the horn and a C might be a good general purpose trombone cup.
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Bruce Guttman
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victorm
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« Reply #11 on: Mar 17, 2017, 07:59AM »

Hi
The problem with the B cups in jk is that the throat is 6.80mm. The trombone sounds small.
Mugs A 7.20mm.Tazas B 6,80mm.
There is no intermediate measurement of 7.00mm
Thank you
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BGuttman
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« Reply #12 on: Mar 17, 2017, 10:09AM »

There are probably a few more factors than simply aperture size that affect how "large" the trombone sounds.

Note that Bach G mouthpieces (4G, 5G) are made with a G drill, which is 6.63 mm.

There is a "bored out" model, 4GM, 5GM that has a larger aperture of 7.13 mm.

Sometimes the shape of the transition into the throat can affect this.  There is no common measurement for this feature; you will have to try a few brands to find if any is better (or not).  Sometimes manufacturing tolerances can make this area a little different from piece to piece from the same maker.

Another factor is the backbore.  A larger backbore can make the mouthpiece play like your JK 5AL while a tighter backbore can require less air.  I forgot to check whether there are backbore variants when I visited the JK site.  I know that on my bass trombone, my DE mouthpiece with his 9 backbore is an air hog and tends to play quite flat.  I have a 7 backbore and it's much better (even the 8 backbore was a bit flat).
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Bruce Guttman
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« Reply #13 on: Mar 17, 2017, 11:00AM »

Have a Skype lesson with Doug Elliott  best money you will spend and he will give best options across mouthpieces that will be most efficient for you!
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« Reply #14 on: Mar 17, 2017, 11:37AM »

I have a 51C4 for sale. Gold-plated rim. Nice.
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« Reply #15 on: Mar 17, 2017, 06:44PM »


Note that Bach G mouthpieces (4G, 5G) are made with a G drill, which is 6.63 mm.


Not true Bruce - at least not now, if it ever was so.  The current Bach catalog lists the same throat diameter for all these mouthpieces: 1G, 1G, 2G, 3G, 4G, 5G, and 6A - as 0.276" (7.01mm).  I have a sample of each of these (except the 1G), and ALL their throats easily (but tightly) accommodate a "J" drill (0.277" = 7.04mm).  So Bach's specifications are essentially correct - all throats are larger than 6.63mm (which is the throat size of the ever-popular "Teutonic-sounding" 6AL mouthpiece). 

I don't think Bach's "G" designation has anything to do with mouthpiece throat diameter. 
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« Reply #16 on: Mar 21, 2017, 09:42AM »

of the 3 you mentioned, the Schilke 51c4 played very bright for me and I didn't care for the rim much. a Schilke 51 is an option, but I honestly think they are too deep - at least for me. I have a yamaha 52 that I don't use anymore - comfortable rim, not too deep. I just don't really like the sound I get from it - very steady and boring IMO. bach 5g might be too small for you due to the piece you have been playing on. I've been using a Greg black NY 5.5 for about 3 months and like it a lot - better than anything else I've tried. I am going to get a used 4.5g/5g to compare with it though. I also occasionally use a Doug Elliott Lt 102 G G8 for jazz/big band as the GB piece delivers a more orchestral sound for me. Rim size between the two feels very similar.   
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victorm
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« Reply #17 on: Mar 22, 2017, 03:22AM »

Hello
Well. I have decided to try the Ian Bousfiel S4.
Has anyone tried it ?.
Thank you
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« Reply #18 on: Mar 22, 2017, 01:16PM »

I have one. If you want a brighter sound and a comfortable rim, it is a good choice.
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Brasslab 50T3, Greg Glack 1G .312 #2
Bach 50T, ditto
Conn 60H, ditto
Bach 42B, Greg Black NY 1.25
Conn 6H, King 7MD
Yamaha YEP-842S, Schilke 53/59
Yamaha YBH-301MS, Hammond 12XL
victorm
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« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2017, 09:21AM »


Hello Ellrod.
Well if you would be interested.If you say price with shipping to Spain included?
Thank you
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