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Author Topic: Advice on Hitting High Notes?  (Read 15222 times)
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Geezerhorn

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« Reply #200 on: Jul 09, 2017, 01:32PM »

I think he was saying that Alessi's approach was the opposite of yours. I'm sure there's more than one way to do it.

That darn Harrison. lol

Actually, it didn't appear that Joe was describing how to find high notes. It sounded as though he was describing how to play them with you-know-what to the walls. That is presumably after they had been found.  :D

I sense a challenge, veiled in the earlier posts and more explicit here. 

Waiting...  ;-)

-------------------------------------------------

OBTW, guys - go give Tom a critique on his latest recording. I think he's feeling a little unloved!

...Geezer
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harrison.t.reed
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« Reply #201 on: Jul 09, 2017, 03:09PM »

Like Doug said, you have to squeak it out at first to help figure out to play with a "chest voice".
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Geezerhorn

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« Reply #202 on: Jul 09, 2017, 03:21PM »

Like Doug said, you have to squeak it out at first to help figure out to play with a "chest voice".

Isn't that a common pedagogical practice?

...Geezer
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timothy42b
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« Reply #203 on: Jul 09, 2017, 04:01PM »


Waiting...  ;-)

...Geezer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zdgykIvo0Y

That didn't turn out as good as I'd planned.  If possible I'll do another one when I'm fresh and delete that one.

First, geezer and I have very different approaches to recordings.  He polishes them into works of art, while I use them as scientific documentation of a work in progress, warts and all. 

But anyway.  How does harrison nail that high note cold?  He has it firmly in his ear first

The point of the range rip I was trying to demonstrate, and fell so short on, is to fix the high note in your ear.  It's not primarily a strength exercise.  Usually I can get at least the G doing that. 

Finally, why am I using a pBone?  My Bach is in the repair shop, see the other thread.  Trust me, the mini pBone is not easier to play. 
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Tim Richardson
Geezerhorn

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« Reply #204 on: Jul 09, 2017, 04:04PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zdgykIvo0Y

That didn't turn out as good as I'd planned.  If possible I'll do another one when I'm fresh and delete that one.

First, geezer and I have very different approaches to recordings.  He polishes them into works of art, while I use them as scientific documentation of a work in progress, warts and all. 

But anyway.  How does harrison nail that high note cold?  He has it firmly in his ear first

The point of the range rip I was trying to demonstrate, and fell so short on, is to fix the high note in your ear.  It's not primarily a strength exercise.  Usually I can get at least the G doing that. 

Finally, why am I using a pBone?  My Bach is in the repair shop, see the other thread.  Trust me, the mini pBone is not easier to play. 

I think this is by far your best vid yet!

...Geezer
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harrison.t.reed
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« Reply #205 on: Jul 09, 2017, 04:26PM »

Isn't that a common pedagogical practice?

...Geezer

All seriousness aside (See my video again. Very serious business...($19.99)), I actually wouldn't advocate squeaking much beyond hearing that it's possible to play a certain note. Sure everyone is going to do it, even if it's deep in the privacy of their home whether they are told to or not. But squeaking it out with a strained embouchure and lack of air moving through your chops will hurt you in the long run.

One trick I used for a young girl I taught years ago, who just wanted a solid "high Bb", was to hand her my jinbao alto and let her borrow it. During that lesson, she was easily able to play the Bb on the alto. The difference is the air needed to achieve the right resistance to get the note out. She wasn't  pinching or squeaking it out on the alto. It was easy for her to figure out how to get that same feeling on her tenor during the same lesson.

I like the head voice vs chest voice comparison that Ian Bousfield uses in his video on the upper register.
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88HTCL - Griego 1C
36H - DE XT105, C+, D Alto Shank
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pBone (with Yellow bell for bright tone)
Geezerhorn

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« Reply #206 on: Jul 09, 2017, 04:59PM »

All seriousness aside (See my video again. Very serious business...($19.99)), I actually wouldn't advocate squeaking much beyond hearing that it's possible to play a certain note. Sure everyone is going to do it, even if it's deep in the privacy of their home whether they are told to or not. But squeaking it out with a strained embouchure and lack of air moving through your chops will hurt you in the long run.

One trick I used for a young girl I taught years ago, who just wanted a solid "high Bb", was to hand her my jinbao alto and let her borrow it. During that lesson, she was easily able to play the Bb on the alto. The difference is the air needed to achieve the right resistance to get the note out. She wasn't  pinching or squeaking it out on the alto. It was easy for her to figure out how to get that same feeling on her tenor during the same lesson.

I like the head voice vs chest voice comparison that Ian Bousfield uses in his video on the upper register.

Agreed. However, there is a difference between squeaking and playing softly with finesse.

I'll often train on my smallest bore horn to get the feel of the notes and then try to transfer them over to a larger horn and finally my largest horn. I don't think there is anything wrong with that approach. Conversely, I like to train the lowest notes on my largest horn and transfer them to my smaller horns.

...Geezer
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timothy42b
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« Reply #207 on: Jul 09, 2017, 06:09PM »

All seriousness aside (See my video again. Very serious business...($19.99)), I actually wouldn't advocate squeaking much beyond hearing that it's possible to play a certain note.

There are high range tricks that aren't real ways of playing, and I wouldn't want to squeak using them. 

But I think there needn't be a sharp cutoff to your range.  It can be a continuum, from a note you can hammer, to a note you can play soft and controlled, to notes you get softer and softer until they turn into a squeak.  Then a squeal, then a dog whistle.
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Tim Richardson
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« Reply #208 on: Jul 10, 2017, 03:44AM »

Is the Chas Collin Flexibilities book not used anymore? It was considered essential back in the '70's, and even though I don't own a copy anymore, exercises or ones very similar are still part of my main practice routine.

It's still a valid way to increase the upper register IMO, and the speed and volume at which they're practiced affects strength and flexibility.

I had a usable high F on a Reynolds bass trombone with a VB 1.5G back then..


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Geezerhorn

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« Reply #209 on: Jul 10, 2017, 04:14AM »

Is the Chas Collin Flexibilities book not used anymore? It was considered essential back in the '70's, and even though I don't own a copy anymore, exercises or ones very similar are still part of my main practice routine.

It's still a valid way to increase the upper register IMO, and the speed and volume at which they're practiced affects strength and flexibility.

I had a usable high F on a Reynolds bass trombone with a VB 1.5G back then..


Never heard of it.

I like TD's GSMOY for some musical high-range training. I have it written out progressively higher & higher. It's simple to use BiaB to change the key up a 1/2 step when I want to. Using an accompaniment is nice b/c it pushes me to stay on the beat and not be a slacker. But when I can't hit the high notes any more, I finish the song down an octave. Rest. Rinse. Repeat.

...Geezer
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« Reply #210 on: Jul 10, 2017, 07:29AM »

Never heard of it.

I like TD's GSMOY for some musical high-range training. I have it written out progressively higher & higher. It's simple to use BiaB to change the key up a 1/2 step when I want to. Using an accompaniment is nice b/c it pushes me to stay on the beat and not be a slacker. But when I can't hit the high notes any more, I finish the song down an octave. Rest. Rinse. Repeat.

...Geezer

It's the equivalent to weight training. There's a lot of variables, like speed, note values, distance between tones and volume, so it's not like a slow slog of long climbing notes. I've found a way to make them more musically interesting and relevant to my needs over the years.

Geezer, so you do no lip flex's or trills for upper range?
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« Reply #211 on: Jul 10, 2017, 07:47AM »

It's the equivalent to weight training. There's a lot of variables, like speed, note values, distance between tones and volume, so it's not like a slow slog of long climbing notes. I've found a way to make them more musically interesting and relevant to my needs over the years.

Geezer, so you do no lip flex's or trills for upper range?

I do a series of cross-grain scale slurs, using a lot of alternate positions to make as many cross-grain slurs as possible.

...Geezer
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harrison.t.reed
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« Reply #212 on: Jul 10, 2017, 08:29AM »

Tim, just watched your vid. Hilarious. I gotta try that duct tape on the brace!
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88HTCL - Griego 1C
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3B/F Silversonic - Griego 1A ss
pBone (with Yellow bell for bright tone)
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« Reply #213 on: Jul 10, 2017, 08:34AM »

Tim, just watched your vid. Hilarious. I gotta try that duct tape on the brace!

I think his work here is done!

...Geezer
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« Reply #214 on: Jul 10, 2017, 08:48AM »

I think his work here is done!

...Geezer

What key are you up to in playing IGSOY? It seems I've seen a video of Doug playing it in F, and then some.
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Geezerhorn

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« Reply #215 on: Jul 10, 2017, 08:57AM »

What key are you up to in playing IGSOY? It seems I've seen a video of Doug playing it in F, and then some.

Lol. I'm still stuck on the key of D. It's an endurance thing for me. I start out terrific, but can't quite make it all the way through the whole tune yet. Odd though, I can sometimes do a nice job on Jobim's "Wave" in Eb, hiking the bridge up one octave to make high Eb. But that part is after a substantial rest while the backup group riffs. I know what to do, it's the doing it part that I'm still working on. lol It's coming. I run through those things in the morning and then play my Conn 88H as low as possible in the evening. I push in both directions.

Sometimes a high session off is in order. I did a recording this morning instead of working on high range.

...Geezer
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« Reply #216 on: Jul 10, 2017, 09:03AM »

Lol. I'm still stuck on the key of D. It's an endurance thing for me. I start out terrific, but can't quite make it all the way through the whole tune yet. Odd though, I can sometimes do a nice job on Jobim's "Wave" in Eb, hiking the bridge up one octave to make high Eb. But that part is after a substantial rest while the backup group riffs. I know what to do, it's the doing it part that I'm still working on. lol It's coming. I run through those things in the morning and then play my Conn 88H as low as possible in the evening. I push in both directions.

Sometimes a high session off is in order. I did a recording this morning instead of working on high range.

...Geezer

D is good. Tommy Dorsey's key. Maybe sometime you can sub for him?

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« Reply #217 on: Jul 10, 2017, 09:09AM »

D is good. Tommy Dorsey's key. Maybe sometime you can sub for him?


Lol. If he was still alive and I did stand in for him during an illness, I would probably get such rave reviews that he would get better real quick! (In my dreams).

You're a player. Any pet tricks and/or concepts you can share with us on pushing your range up?

...Geezer
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« Reply #218 on: Jul 10, 2017, 01:08PM »


Ok - I will weigh in on this what Harrison started. You will immediately see that my low range is in need of repair. LOL!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXuKhdgfk8g

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« Reply #219 on: Jul 10, 2017, 01:12PM »

Dude!  the ceiling fan!  you're supposed to do your vibrato with the slide!

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