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Author Topic: King 3B+  (Read 2394 times)
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Bellend

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« Reply #20 on: Mar 19, 2017, 04:08AM »

Correct.  The 3B+ slide is the same width as a 3B.  A 4B slide is much wider...

Hi, yes I am aware of that thanks.


Most manufacturers outer slides have an I.D. of the next size up inner slide i.e. .500 inner has a .525 outer.525 inner has a .547 outer and so it goes on. It's not always exactly like that but usually something very close which makes sense as it cuts tooling costs as you  get two models from one mandrel.

As I posted earlier I have tried modifying a Bach 16M with two different styles of wider crook but neither was successful I think due to  the  jump in I.D. from the standard crook which Benn Hanson says is actually from a model 6
As the 3B+ is a 525 bore bearing in mind what I've just said above  I'm hoping making the same mod on this horn will not upset things so much, it's a gamble but worth a try.

I'm want to try a wide glide crook which has a .547 I.D. and also a 4B crook which I don't know the dimensions of yet.

Although the 4B with the small shank adapter blows better than I'd feared I don't think it is a viable long term solution for me.

BellEnd
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salsabone
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« Reply #21 on: Mar 20, 2017, 07:07PM »

Bellend, Just to give you some other ideas....maybe a Bach 42 with no f-attachment or maybe even better a vintage, if you will, a .520 bore 8.5 inch bell Reynolds Contempora or even more interesting Aregnta.  I own both and if I was leaning into jazz combo work these would be what I would think would be the best horns in my stable for this kind of sound for me!!!!
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greenbean
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« Reply #22 on: Mar 20, 2017, 08:55PM »

...
I'm want to try a wide glide crook which has a .547 I.D. and also a 4B crook which I don't know the dimensions of yet.

Although the 4B with the small shank adapter blows better than I'd feared I don't think it is a viable long term solution for me.

BellEnd

I am a little slow...

You are saying you want to put a 4B (or similar) crook on your 3B+ slide, right?  I think a single-radius crook, like the 4B crook, would be a good choice.  I have a beater 5B slide.  If you want, I can pull it out and check the condition of the crook.  I don't recall... but the horn, in general, had a long and active life...

Tom
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--Bach 50B (1966)
Bellend

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« Reply #23 on: Mar 21, 2017, 09:50AM »

I am a little slow...

You are saying you want to put a 4B (or similar) crook on your 3B+ slide, right?  I think a single-radius crook, like the 4B crook, would be a good choice.  I have a beater 5B slide.  If you want, I can pull it out and check the condition of the crook.  I don't recall... but the horn, in general, had a long and active life...

Tom


That's very kind of you but I have already sourced one.

Bought an early 80's 3B+ today so will know if it's going to work out or not with in a week or so.

Fingers crossed..........


Bellend, Just to give you some other ideas....maybe a Bach 42 with no f-attachment or maybe even better a vintage, if you will, a .520 bore 8.5 inch bell Reynolds Contempora or even more interesting Aregnta.  I own both and if I was leaning into jazz combo work these would be what I would think would be the best horns in my stable for this kind of sound for me!!!!

I already have an Argenta, an earlier .520 bore one but it's not really in playable condition as yet. Will get it sorted when funds allow. I think the leadpipe is missing any suggestions?

Thanks


BellEnd
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Bellend

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« Reply #24 on: Mar 23, 2017, 02:55AM »

Just got the 3B+ yesterday and after blowing it am a bit disappointed.

It feels quite tight and doesn't seem  to centre that well.

The mouthpiece seems to stick out of the receiver a little more than on most horns so it might be an issue with the leadpipe.

Has anyone pulled the pipe on one of these? and if so what did you replace it with.

Am still going to try the 4B crook anyway.

BellEnd
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Matt K

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« Reply #25 on: Mar 23, 2017, 03:28AM »

Although you won't know what the cause was, when they do the crook just make sure they do a full re-alignment and cleaning too. I had a 3BGSX that was actually quite a disappointing horn until I damaged the slide and had to take it into the shop.  Lo and behold it wasn't sealing very well (although that did explain its quick slide action). Once it was sealing it was a totally different instrument. Seems like I've encountered a number of Kings like that. Not sure if its tolerance of them or simply coincidence that those particular slides were damaged in such a way that it made the rest of the horn play not very well.

I've replaced the leadpipe on a King 3B before with a Shires T08. Shires is #2 is my go-to replacement for non-Shires horns because 1) they're often available from the factory or distributor that day and 2) they're the 'in-between' option and seem to work for a lot of different instruments.  If you're wanting something that blows brighter, a nickel T25 2 from Shires may be a better fit.

You could also try replacing the stock leadpipe. They're not expensive last I had the price of one checked for me.  Less than $50 for sure, less than $20 if I recall right.  If you go with something non-stock you might run into some minor complications that are out of the scope of my knowledge... I believe the 3B+ has a 2 piece leadpipe likes the smaller horns does and I'm pretty sure that changes the way it works to get them swapped, but I dont' know that for sure.  You could also have a problem with the receiver, which is also not a particualrly expensive problem but may not be the leadpipe per se.

I did a similar project where I swapped the upper slide from a 3B with a 2b+ upper and the cork barrels for Shires parts.  The end result was pretty good (though if you want to do this, don't order the parts with the brazed bell brace, its a different diameter than the King brace and causes a headache for the tech). I had the threads mounted on a 2b+ leadpipe and Shires T00 2 leadpipe; I preferred the "2" pipe from Shires.

FWIW.

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What's in a name? that which we call a tenor-bass posaune
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afugate

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« Reply #26 on: Mar 23, 2017, 04:06AM »

Maybe a valve alignment issue?

--Andy in OKC
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I'm an optimist.  Some day, I'll sound like Bill Watrous.  And, I'm still waiting on that darned growth spurt!
Bellend

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« Reply #27 on: Mar 23, 2017, 06:49AM »

Thanks for the advice on the leadpipes I have a Shires 2.5 bass pipe that is great and seems to play pretty well in most horns. getting another from Conn Selmer might be the best place to start.

When I have the mod done I will try and get the leadpipe out at the same time although it's been in there coming up 40 years so may be a bit reluctant to move.



Maybe a valve alignment issue?

--Andy in OKC

This is a straight horn so no issues there but thanks for the thought.


BellEnd
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Matt K

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« Reply #28 on: Mar 23, 2017, 07:51AM »

Worst case scenario you can still source 3b+ tubes. A new inner might we'll end up better overall than extracting the pipe and using the old inner.
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What's in a name? that which we call a tenor-bass posaune
By any other name would smell as sweet;
Bellend

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« Reply #29 on: Mar 25, 2017, 04:05AM »

After a bit of swapping things about it turns out the problem with this horn is actually the bell section.

I put the King hand slide on to the bell section of my Selmer Bolero and it plays fine, put the Bolero slide on to the King and it's really duff like it is with the King slide.

This is a real pain as it is much harder to figure out what's wrong.
The bell seems to ring quite clearly so is unlikely under excessive tension and shows no sign of ever having been repaired.
I've had cleaning brushes through the gooseneck and tuning slide bows which are all clear.

I've shone a torch up inside to check for any big lumps of solder and nothing......

So I either get the bell section dismantled and reassembled or ditch it.


BellEnd
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Matt K

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« Reply #30 on: Mar 25, 2017, 05:25AM »

It's a straight bell section (no f attach) right? Get it reassembled. Worst case scenario you just discovered that you don't like the 3b+ and you have a good stress free bell section. At least that's what I'd do.
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What's in a name? that which we call a tenor-bass posaune
By any other name would smell as sweet;
bassclef

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« Reply #31 on: Mar 28, 2017, 10:30AM »

I can sell you a Benge 160 bell section in essentially NOS condition.

It's a medium bore straight horn which is essentially a re-badged King 3B+. It should hook right up to your slide, locknut threads and all.

Bell material is gold brass.

Let me know if you're interested. I've been meaning to sell it, but haven't found the time to take photos and post a listing.
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Aaron Thornberry
Bass & Tenor Trombonist
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