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The Trombone ForumPractice BreakChit-ChatPurely Politics(Moderators: bhcordova, RedHotMama, BFW) Trump Launches Tomahawks Against Assad
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BillO
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« Reply #60 on: Apr 10, 2017, 08:53PM »

AFAIAC, Assad and Trump are two peas in a pod.  The only difference is there are still some fairly effective safeguards in the US.  Safeguards I bet Trump would rather have out of the way.  He proved that by changing the rules for affirming a supreme court candidate.

By 2020 the US could be a very different place than it is now.  You may not like it.
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« Reply #61 on: Apr 10, 2017, 08:54PM »


By 2020 the US could be a very different place than it is now.  You may not like it.

It is already to that point for me
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Ellrod

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« Reply #62 on: Apr 10, 2017, 09:40PM »

Assad and Trump = 2 peas in a pod?

A considerable overstatement.

-----

We had some interest in going down to Palm Springs or maybe to Portland to take in an away game. I thought of going to the ITF. But we don't really want to go to the US these days. We've booked a trip to Mexico instead.
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BillO
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« Reply #63 on: Apr 10, 2017, 10:08PM »

Assad and Trump = 2 peas in a pod?

A considerable overstatement.
Not really, at least in my reckoning.  Do you think if Trump had the freedom Assad has he would be as contained as he is now?  His outlandish rhetoric would not just be outlandish rhetoric.
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« Reply #64 on: Apr 11, 2017, 02:32AM »

AFAIAC, Assad and Trump are two peas in a pod.  The only difference is there are still some fairly effective safeguards in the US.  Safeguards I bet Trump would rather have out of the way.  He proved that by changing the rules for affirming a supreme court candidate.

Trump did not change the rules. McConnell did.

McConnell has been leading his party in the senate in a hyper partisan method since well before Trump. As soon as Obama was in and McConnell was in a position of authority, it became his personal seated mission to oppose even bipartisan legislation on a partisan manner to make it seem partisan. He then led a senate that filibustered more than every other senate combined. He the led his party in unprecedented steps to steal a supreme court pick, and likely politicize the view of the court for decades to come. And the moment the other party wanted to filibuster and he was in power? Kill it.

On the other hand, the GOP has push for such a hyper-partisan path for two decades now, and they are feeling the result of it with an utter inability to draft and push through legislation that even their own party wants. And Trump... has only signed executive orders to "push" his agenda at this point... something presidents resort to when they have nothing else. There own actions to push their agenda are also what is crippling it.

The GOP in our county has been on a slash and burn, stay in power mode... yes.

But that's a bit different than killing your own populous because they oppose you.
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« Reply #65 on: Apr 11, 2017, 02:57AM »

And Trump... has only signed executive orders to "push" his agenda at this point... something presidents resort to when they have nothing else.

If this is true (and most probably it is) that very..."sad".
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« Reply #66 on: Apr 11, 2017, 08:04AM »

If this is true (and most probably it is) that very..."sad".

Yes, at the moment our country is, indeed, VERY, sad.
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« Reply #67 on: Apr 11, 2017, 08:22AM »

Yes, at the moment our country is, indeed, VERY, sad.
No, the country is pretty great.  Some parts are sad.  Do not conflate Trump = USA anymore than Putin = Russia.

Cheers,
Andy
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Andrew Elms
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« Reply #68 on: Apr 11, 2017, 08:24AM »

No, the country is pretty great.  Some parts are sad.  Do not conflate Trump = USA anymore than Putin = Russia.

Cheers,
Andy

I never did...though some of his supporters are pretty pitiful, but that can be said about any politician anywhere  :/
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« Reply #69 on: Apr 12, 2017, 08:03AM »

From the Independent:

Did Assad use chemical weapons in the recent attack? Or was this an al-Qaeda weapons store which the Syrians blew up (which wouldn’t actually let Syria off the hook, since the aftermath of such an attack would obviously kill civilians)? The problem is that we know Assad’s opponents have chemical weapons – some captured, I suspect, from Syrian government stocks before Assad handed them over to the West for destruction on Putin’s orders. Other chemicals passed across the northern frontier of Syria from Turkey (Nato member and a “friend” of the West, before Erdogan went bonkers). And if the Syrian military did use chemicals “on their own people” why should they do so when they are now winning their war with Isis and when such use would clearly embarrass Putin?

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« Reply #70 on: Apr 12, 2017, 09:22AM »

And if the Syrian military did use chemicals “on their own people” why should they do so when they are now winning their war with Isis and when such use would clearly embarrass Putin?
Why has Trump made erratic and contradictory statements, or said things like he will go after members of his own party in congress when he clearly has not ability or desire to?

Some people behave very logically and consistently. Some do not.

Why did Assad barrel bomb his own people and gas them before?

The question really isn't why they did what they did. But if they actually did it.
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« Reply #71 on: Apr 12, 2017, 09:54AM »

I should point out that Serin gas is a two component weapon and if it was set off by bombing a depot the two components would have to be in close proximity and somehow mixed by the action of the explosion.  The result would be a rather tepid gas attack.  This had to have been an intentional attack with armed weapons.
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BillO
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« Reply #72 on: Apr 12, 2017, 10:03AM »

In addition it is not likely that much of the component chemicals would have survived the high temperatures of the explosions.
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« Reply #73 on: Apr 12, 2017, 12:29PM »

Well, did he launch the missiles at Iraq or Syria?  Eh, doesn't matter.  At least the cake was good. /sarcasm

Seriously, when we aren't getting quotes from actual fascists, now he's adding Marie Antoinette?

I will never be able to fathom how people thought this was the 'lesser of two evils.'

Cheers,
Andy
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« Reply #74 on: Apr 12, 2017, 03:57PM »

Why has Trump made erratic and contradictory statements, or said things like he will go after members of his own party in congress when he clearly has not ability or desire to?

Some people behave very logically and consistently. Some do not.

Why did Assad barrel bomb his own people and gas them before?

The question really isn't why they did what they did. But if they actually did it.

A point not lost on the Russians in the recent talks Tillerson had in Russia with Lavrov and afterwards Putin.

Lavrov greeted Mr Tillerson with icy remarks, denouncing the missile strike on Syria as illegal and accusing Washington of behaving unpredictably. He then said, "I won't hide the fact that we have a lot of questions, taking into account the extremely ambiguous and sometimes contradictory ideas which have been expressed in Washington across the whole spectrum of bilateral and multilateral affairs."

Lavrov's deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov was even more undiplomatic. He commented to the Russian news agency, "In general, primitiveness and loutishness are very characteristic of the current rhetoric coming out of Washington. We'll hope that this doesn't become the substance of American policy."

I do not hold much stock with Russian behaviour in international affairs but at least they are more or less predictable. I still would like to see such predictability from Trump. And I would like to feel there is some kind of logical and sensible master plan so that we can all get on board! At least Trump today on TV said that he realised the relationship with Russia was at an all-time low. I hope he realised it is his fault.

More important, I want to see this tension with North Korea resolved. Sending the US warships up there is the most serious threat to world peace in the nuclear age that I have ever seen!

   
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« Reply #75 on: Apr 12, 2017, 04:12PM »

We're going to miss the Soviet Union.
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« Reply #76 on: Apr 12, 2017, 04:36PM »

One of the oddest things for me, is that Trump basically committed an act of war. The only reason we aren't fully engaged at this point, is that the country he attacked is too weak to really counter. And for all of it, Trump can't even really say a simple why he did it that is consistent day to day and somewhat thoughtful.

On the other hand, Russia' involvement is interesting. They have a long history of aggressive posturing almost to the point of war to get other countries to seed to them what they wanted so that war won't break out. Especially in their efforts to rebuild the old soviet union. But really... they aren't as strong as they pretend, and for all of their aggressive posturing, they rarely engage in serious battles with a somewhat strong enemy.

Wonder how this russia and trump thing will work out. Russia like to posture, but get trump irritated and he wants to hit back... and has already shown he lacks the ability to think first. They very well may find trump calling their bluff.

So... with trump already stating that of course russia knew about the chemical attacks before they happened, as they were close allies to assad... will this escalate? or will russia back down? Because I don't think trump has the strength of character to back down himself.
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« Reply #77 on: Apr 12, 2017, 05:18PM »

Isn't Putin just making Russia great again?

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« Reply #78 on: Apr 13, 2017, 05:21AM »

Isn't Putin just making Russia great again?
Through a much more calculated and intelligent strategy, yup.

He wants russia to be the big dog on the scene again. Hence why they're in syria to even begin with.
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« Reply #79 on: Apr 13, 2017, 10:23AM »

Russia has had an interest in the Middle East for years, back to the Great Game.

And,  to its credit, it may have realized as bad as Assad might be, he is better than the alternatives. See Iraq.

Whereas the US was and is as naive as ever. See Iraq.
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