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The Trombone ForumHorns, Gear, and EquipmentRepairs, Modifications and Maintenance(Moderators: john sandhagen, BGuttman) Worn mouthpiece receiver on Besson 944 or faulty venturi???
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« on: Apr 20, 2017, 12:51AM »

I have an early 1990s Besson Sovereign 944 which I have only ever played with a Dennis Wick mouthpiece. The mouthpiece has always fitted to the same depth.
I recently tried a couple of a couple of other large bore pieces which unfortunately slide all the way into the receiver with no shank visible.
The current wick piece has about 3/8 to a 1/4 of an inch of shank showing when inserted.

The instrument when purchased had a faulty seal with the mouthpieces (leaking) and was repaired under warranty. I'm not certain how the repair was done??

When I look down the receiver I can see no evidence of a venturi or lead pipe (soldered in).

I'm uncertain whether I have worn receiver, a manufacturing fault ie no evidence of lead pipe or venturi or a poor repair job completed years ago whereby the repairer may have reemed the receiver to repair a leak.

Prior to going to a repairer I would like to have some kind of knowledge of what might be wrong.

Thanks
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Burgerbob

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« Reply #1 on: Apr 20, 2017, 01:20AM »

Does this Denis Wick mouthpiece fit in anything else?
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« Reply #2 on: Apr 20, 2017, 01:31AM »

You won't be able to see "evidence" of a leadpipe by looking down the receiver. If you take off the outer slide and look into the end of the inner tube while holding it towards a light source, you should be able to see the edge of the leadpipe. I doubt if the leadpipe is missing; probably just worn.
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« Reply #3 on: Apr 20, 2017, 02:41AM »

I have played both wick pieces in other bones and they fit as expected.

I can't see evidence of a lead pipe when looking down either end of the slide.

What would be the best way to fix the receiver? Have it pulled and replace with a press fit??
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« Reply #4 on: Apr 20, 2017, 03:19AM »

I've had same situation with my Sovereign 944.
There was the leadpipe but it looks like it has different taper (slightly wider Morse, I think).
"Normal" large shank mouthpieces (Bach, Conn, Schilke, G&W, DE) sits all the way in, like in Remington leadpipe, but without wobbling.
Wick 4AL, which was sold with that trombone - didn't come too deep as others, but anyway it sits a little deeper than in my 88HCL and 42T.
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« Reply #5 on: Apr 20, 2017, 05:16AM »

Thanks for the input. Playing with a wick 4bl.
I was keen to change to a similar size piece with a different contoured rim, which sparked me trying other pieces and finding that they fit all the way in.
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john sandhagen
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« Reply #6 on: Apr 20, 2017, 05:42AM »

I worked on a small bore Besson of that vintage...it was brand new.  The horn just didn't play so the owner had me pull the pipe, but it was just an approximation of a pipe...like it hadn't been finished or something.  I put a Bach 12 in and it played great.

I'd get it looked at and possibly get the pipe removed and see what's up?
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« Reply #7 on: Apr 30, 2017, 07:37PM »

You won't be able to see "evidence" of a leadpipe by looking down the receiver. If you take off the outer slide and look into the end of the inner tube while holding it towards a light source, you should be able to see the edge of the leadpipe. I doubt if the leadpipe is missing; probably just worn.
I have a BE-944R and I can see the downstream end of the leadpipe as described. The end of the leadpipe is about 300mm from the mouthpiece receiver.
The mouthpiece receiver is part of the cork barrel.
The upstream end of the leadpipe is somewhere inside the cork barrel, but I can't see where.

There is no visible taper in the leadpipe - I suspect that the venturi is large relative to the bore of the inner.

It's interesting that the supplied mouthpiece was a 4AL which is similar in size to a 3G. After frustration with a Faxx 4G I'm now playing a Bach 3G which gives me overall better results (more controllable timbre and volume, more stable low range, less double buzz) although the sound is a little duller than I would like in the upper register.  I read in an old thread that Brett Baker played and endorsed the BE-944 but it used to go back to the factory for tweaking. I would be interested in knowing what modifications it had.


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