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Author Topic: What's new in lube?  (Read 3015 times)
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bonedaddy66.2
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« on: Apr 22, 2017, 05:17PM »

Alright, so I'm ready to pick up the horn again after about 15 years. When last I put lips to brass, we were using the cream, superslick, and water to keep the slide moving. Has there been any new leaps in technology in this area? Grateful for any input. In Trombone, we trust...
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« Reply #1 on: Apr 22, 2017, 05:29PM »

Back in the Bad Old Days we used to use Pond's Cold Cream but some time in the 1970s it changed and didn't work as well.  As a result there were all kinds of "Imitation Pond's" like Superslick, Conn Formula 3, and Trombotine.

Then there was a discovery that silicones could work as a slide lube.  First one was Slide-O-Mix which was in two parts: a small bottle and a large bottle.  You put a few drops of the small bottle on each stocking and worked it in.  Then a dose of the large bottle (a few drops, but more than the small bottle) and worked that in.  If it started to stick you gave it a spritz of water.

There were a bunch of similar materials many of which were one part instead of two.

Current fad is the Yamaha Slide Lube.  Works pretty well for many people.

One thing to consider.  Creams and silicones don't mix.  If you are using Trombotine and put on Slide-O-Mix it gets gummy.  Same in reverse.  If you want to go from a cream to a silicone you have to clean the slide really well.

One exception to the mix I have found is UltraPure.  It works over creams or over silicones.  Even works by itself.

Some have said that the older slides like creams and newer slides like silicones.  But I know of a 1947 King 2B Silvertone working very well with Slide-O-Mix.

I found some generic cold cream that is exactly like the old Pond's and I'm set for life (unless I lose the two jars I got).

So cream, silicone, whatever.  Lots of different choices out there.
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Bruce Guttman
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« Reply #2 on: Apr 22, 2017, 06:08PM »

Brad,

You have a nice collection of trombones. 

Bruce is right - very few of us use slide "creams" these days.  (Though there are some who swear by Trombotine.) 

I play with a lot of other trombonists.  There's no single winner, but I would say the current favorites are:
Yamaha Trombone Slide Lubricant
Slide-O-Mix Trombone Lubricant (2-part)
Slide-O-Mix Rapid Comfort (1-part)
Ultra-Pure Trombone Slide Lube (new formulation)

Fine mist water spray is often used to occasionally "refresh" the lubrication.  But do yourself a favor and use only distilled water to keep your slide from accumulating mineral deposits. 

All the above lubricants are readily available at your favorite full-line music store or on line. 

As we will also all tell you, "Your mileage (preference) may vary!"
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« Reply #3 on: Apr 23, 2017, 12:38PM »

One thing to consider.  Creams and silicones don't mix.  If you are using Trombotine and put on Slide-O-Mix it gets gummy.  Same in reverse.  If you want to go from a cream to a silicone you have to clean the slide really well.

On the contrary, I've had great success with a layer of Ttrombotine, then Yamaha slide oil over that on 1957 Ambassador. Definitely not gonna work on all horns though  Good!
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bonedaddy66.2
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« Reply #4 on: Apr 26, 2017, 01:27AM »

Thanks guys for the responses. Much appreciated.
Trombotine...is that something like Ovaltine? :D
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« Reply #5 on: Apr 26, 2017, 02:55AM »

A lot is down to personal preference, but also your horn... in my experience the older horns with not such tight slide tolerance  are better with Trombotine and newer slides with Yamaha snot!
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« Reply #6 on: Apr 26, 2017, 04:32AM »

A lot is down to personal preference, but also your horn... in my experience the older horns with not such tight slide tolerance  are better with Trombotine and newer slides with Yamaha snot!

I agree with this; I have experimented with a lot of different lubricants in the shop and have found that on new slides creams are typically too thick for the tolerances but the liquid lubricants (Yamaha, Slide-O-Mix) work great.

The other lubricant I would add to the conversation is the Hetman Hydro-Slide; this is a concentrated lubricant that is diluted with water in a spray bottle then sprayed on the inner slide.  The exact concentration can be controlled and this has become a favorite with some of the players in town...
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« Reply #7 on: Apr 26, 2017, 05:22AM »

...

I play with a lot of other trombonists.  There's no single winner, but I would say the current favorites are:
Yamaha Trombone Slide Lubricant
Slide-O-Mix Trombone Lubricant (2-part)
Slide-O-Mix Rapid Comfort (1-part)
Ultra-Pure Trombone Slide Lube (new formulation)
...

Yup - this is the modern scene.  I have used all these and they are all excellent.  I use the Yamaha and Rapid Comfort regularly on newer or otherwise good slides.  The Ultra-Pure is the one that I have used the least - only on one horn - but it seems VERY promising.

And I also agree that the creams (trombotine, mostly for me) are better for older or scratchy slides. 

That reminds me... I need to try the Burt Herrick slide cream I just acquired!...  :)
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« Reply #8 on: Apr 26, 2017, 05:34AM »

It's all about body chemistry. Trombotine works as well as any of those higher priced lubes for me. Better, even.
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« Reply #9 on: Apr 26, 2017, 04:11PM »


Trombotine...is that something like Ovaltine? :D

Not quite as chocolatey. :D
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« Reply #10 on: Apr 28, 2017, 10:00AM »

I've also experimented over the last 6 months with different options as mentioned above. I concluded that the 2-part Slide-o-mix wins...hands-down. The Slide Dr. has a good video on how to apply the two parts (it's not a simple process) as does Paul-the-Trombonist (both on Youtube). I made the mistake of putting just a bit too much of the cream on, but now I've fixed that, it's amazing. I doubt I'll ever need another pack, I use so little of it each time.
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harrison.t.reed
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« Reply #11 on: Apr 28, 2017, 10:27AM »

Slide o mix is a ******************** to clean and keep clean.
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« Reply #12 on: Apr 28, 2017, 12:11PM »

ehm, I have a NEW Edwards and the baby goes very well with Trombotine
(a small amount, of course) and a spray of water

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« Reply #13 on: Apr 28, 2017, 02:48PM »

I've also experimented over the last 6 months with different options as mentioned above. I concluded that the 2-part Slide-o-mix wins...hands-down. The Slide Dr. has a good video on how to apply the two parts (it's not a simple process) as does Paul-the-Trombonist (both on Youtube). I made the mistake of putting just a bit too much of the cream on, but now I've fixed that, it's amazing. I doubt I'll ever need another pack, I use so little of it each time.

Can you provide a link to these videos?
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« Reply #14 on: Apr 28, 2017, 03:54PM »

Not quite as chocolatey. :D

I can't imagine that mixing it into a glass of milk would end very well.  :D

I remember SuperSlick, that's what I used throughout high school and it seemed to work really well.  Still have the little spray bottle, but I haven't used it since then, since it's not carried locally.

Since then, I've used both the Ultra Pure and Yamaha stuff with good results (I tossed the Yamalube in my 607F case and the Ultra Pure in my Schmidt case, so I don't really have anything to add on which works better depending on the level of wear on the slide).  I use the Ultra Pure grease (that comes in the container that kinda looks like a Carmex jar and has about the same texture) and a spritz of water on my tuning slides on all of my trombones.  The only issue with it is that working it onto the stockings builds up a ring of gunk where the inner stocking meets the outer, but it wipes off pretty easily.
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« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2017, 05:30PM »

The Superslick I use comes with the Superslick cream, and then a small bottle of a silicon additive. Works better than Trombotine  on some of the slides I've used. Also seems to last longer, though Trombotine doesn't require a full cleaning and then three steps to reapply, so YMMV.

I've tried the slide o mix two part and the "rapid comfort" in the past, but had problems with it breaking down in the bottles just from keeping it in the case and the temperature change. Never tried the Yamaha stuff by itself, but know a few players that love it.
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« Reply #16 on: Jul 01, 2017, 06:04AM »

Northeast Ohio? You should have a Geraci's Pizza box.

I just gave myself a 70th Birthday present of a 1975ish Conn 50H with a Dog***t slide that the seller used original Ponds to demo. The slide looked terrible but moved decently. He wouldn't sell me the jar :) Took 3M Finishing Pads to smooth out the eruptions from the pitting!

Decided to order the Superslick combo and carefully applied with the Slide Doctor instructions including an hour spent swabbing the inners with brass polish. May as well have been Mucilage.

More swabbing and flushing then a LOT (squeezed some right down the inners!) of the Yamaha YAC102 Slide Cream I began using with a King 607F 5 or 6 years ago got the slide performing as well as any other bargain vintage horn I've tried.

The 50H is a perfect Geezer Horn with it's .520 bore and the ability to project a "symphonic" tone; the King was too "bright" sounding for me. OTOH, the valve is just OK but what the heck, I only play to amuse myself and annoy the neighbors.

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« Reply #17 on: Jul 01, 2017, 06:07AM »



The 50H is a perfect Geezer Horn with it's .520 bore and the ability to project a "symphonic" tone; the King was too "bright" sounding for me. OTOH, the valve is just OK but what the heck, I only play to amuse myself and annoy the neighbors.



Geezer, you gonna let him trash talk you like that? You play a .547 88H!
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« Reply #18 on: Jul 01, 2017, 07:22AM »

Geezer, you gonna let him trash talk you like that? You play a .547 88H!

He's not the only geezer on this Forum.

Personally, I'd prefer a nice 79H over the 50H.  And I'm also on Social Security.
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Bruce Guttman
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« Reply #19 on: Aug 05, 2017, 03:31PM »

FWIW, I just returned to my 1960 King 3B trombone after nearly 40 years away. I still had a bottle of the 1960s era Ponds in the case, and it still works ok! After cleaning, I tried Superslick and was not impressed. I recleaned and used Trombotine, and was very pleased with the results. I think that's going to be my go-to for this instrument.
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« Reply #20 on: Aug 05, 2017, 03:36PM »

I guess I missed something!

Please send your vintage Cold Cream to me!

Otherwise, it's that Yammy stuff for all my horns. But I use it a little differently. I squeeze a bottle into a pint sprayer full of distilled water and spray it on. Makes a great deodorant, too!

...Geezer
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« Reply #21 on: Aug 06, 2017, 10:59AM »

http://slidedr.com/instructional-videos/lubricating-the-trombone-slide/#.WYdRqmFGd4s

https://youtu.be/0-5qYuIlrh0?list=PLYuvkCC36ifEsH0qBots6MbacVgVQKKhs   at 5:54

Yup - this is the modern scene.  I have used all these and they are all excellent.  I use the Yamaha and Rapid Comfort regularly on newer or otherwise good slides.

And I also agree that the creams (trombotine, mostly for me) are better for older or scratchy slides. 


Hints:
  • Do not leave Yamasnot or Slide-O-Mix (SOM) in a hot car.
  • The slide must be very, very clean to start.
  • SOM drys and gets grainy after about a week. Clean horn. Advantage Yamasnot.

Older bottles of Yamasnot are labeled Trombone slide "oil", what you want is Yamaha "YAC1021P"

http://a.co/4Lcsp86
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