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Author Topic: Nartiss sackbut review  (Read 1111 times)
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Posaunus
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« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2017, 12:22PM »

My simple-minded brain is hurting!  Eeek!

It's enough for me to play in three clefs with A ≈ 440.  I'll leave the transposing and pitch-shifting to you more-talented early music specialists. 
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baroquetrombone

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« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2017, 12:51PM »

Thanks for the review. There are some interesting observations there.

First "sort of" universal pitch was 415, brought about by the French court of Louis XIV.

Ignore the French. ALWAYS ignore the French.  :D

<Edit: Fixed quote>
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svenlarsson

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« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2017, 02:40PM »

I have a "High Pitch" trombone from 100 years ago.  It's shorter than a conventional tenor.  It plays like a Trombone in B when played against A=440 instruments.  So would this be a Trombone in C at A=415?

Personally, I've always wondered why the trombone was made in Bb.  My own (probably wrong) theory is that it was originally supposed to be in A (string instruments have one string that is also in A: top string on viola and cello and 2nd string on violin and double bass).  At that time standard pitch was A=465.  Now we adopt A=440 and we have these trombones that it's really tough to modify.  So we consider them instruments in Bb.
Yes the trombones was A , D or E trombones mostly.
But the tuning A was all over the play actually, sometimes as high as a moder C sometimes as low as a modern E.
Trombonists may be playing different tunings in the same town.
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Kanstul 1662. Bach 45B. Kanstul 1555. Besson Euphonium. Kanstul 66-S Tuba. Sackbuts in F/E/Eb Bb/A
And several horns I should sell.
svenlarsson

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« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2017, 02:45PM »

Anyone really did Monteverdi at 415?! That is ridiculous. We might play his work at 440 (because that's the standard of our time), or we might do it at 466 (organ pitch at San Marco in Venezia). Not much else are heard of, at least these days. Boy, musicology (and instruments) has come a long way real quick in the last few decades for sure. Pitches until recently were very localized. First "sort of" universal pitch was 415, brought about by the French court of Louis XIV.

Of course we are not used to Monteverdi in 415. We play Mv in 466 or rarely in 440.
Bach and Handel in 415, Mozart in 430.

It was so many years ago we played trombones in 415 so we did not remember what music it was, maybe it Mozart Requiem, last 20 years that music has ben played in 430 in Sweden.
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Kanstul 1662. Bach 45B. Kanstul 1555. Besson Euphonium. Kanstul 66-S Tuba. Sackbuts in F/E/Eb Bb/A
And several horns I should sell.
Le.Tromboniste
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« Reply #24 on: Jun 19, 2017, 09:37PM »

I thought I'd post a little update. Today I got to try two more Nartiss sackbuts. My first impressions were confirmed : not impossible to get a good sackbut sound on them WITH a good mouthpiece. Very in-tune lower partials, higher partials terrible,  no high Bb/A in 1st position. No 7th position. Very sketchy craftsmanship.

One of them had a passable slide. The other slide was so bad that even held completely vertically, it would not fall off the horn!!! I have a picture of the horn on a stand, with the slide just hanging above the ground, stuck in 3rd position.... and these were brand new horns straight out of the factory, still in their plastic wrapping inside the case!


The amateur player who was trying them out did sound much, much better and closer to a good sackbut sound on the Nartiss than on his regular "Posaunenchor"-type fake sackbut.

So my conclusions : if the choice is between a Finke, Alexander, Giardinelli, etc and a Nartiss, choose the Nartiss, it'll be closer to the real deal (still rather far). But don't expect a good instrument, and be aware that you are buying a much overpriced instrument. The craftsmanship in this $1000+ horn is worthy of a $200 instrument.
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Maximilien Brisson
chipolah

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« Reply #25 on: Yesterday at 01:06 AM »

FYI... Wessex has sackbuts also; Alto, Tenor and Bass.
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Holton TR-100 / Bach 6-1/2A
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Le.Tromboniste
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« Reply #26 on: Yesterday at 08:01 AM »

FYI... Wessex has sackbuts also; Alto, Tenor and Bass.

Yes, I know, I'm eager to try one, even though their appearance is not promising (they look like the typical fakebuts that are made with a modern concept and just a smaller bell). But I'll try them with an open mind.

I was wondering, as you're here, if you could tell us what you know or think about the issue that has been raised by a number of people on the forum and others I met; that there reportedly is a rather big, sudden increase in bore size between the slide and bell sections?


Nartiss also has an alto, that I haven't had a chance to try, and is reportedly making prototypes for a bass these days.
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Maximilien Brisson
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